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Messages - bryes
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136
« on: March 10 2013, 07:43:22 PM »
Thnks Steve, I'm going to check to see if the manifold surfaces are warped next weekend, if they are then I can straighten them out with an air file  I bought copper gaskets from summit and I guess that I plan to use them either way unless there is a reason not to? This weekend I was able to get the intake installed and worked on some other parts. I need to start thinking about putting the beast back into the car.
137
« on: March 04 2013, 09:08:52 PM »
Well once the weather cooperates I'll be able to make some more progress on this engine. If it is rainy or too windy I can't do any work because I have to have the shed door open, and the last few weekends have seen their share of both. Plus the other day as I was admiring my "expert" craftsmanship, I noticed dangling from a nail ..... the dreaded oil slinger!  So since my last post the only progress that I have made is fixing that screw-up. That being said, I have been thinking about how to install my exhaust headers and have been reading that some use header gaskets or copper rtv while others do not. Mine had gaskets on them, so I think that's the best route for me to take because they may have been needed in the first place. The fel-pro kit that I bought has them so I don't even have to spend any $$. Any opinions? I am also planning on re-using as many of my old sensors as I can other than the o2, knock and fan switch, which I have already bought new. It seems like the cam sensor, map and crank sensor are also fairly problematic. Is there any way of testing these to insure that my used ones are OK? Anything else that should be tested before the motor goes in? The intake is ready to go with the new fuel system, so as soon as I get a good weekend (I'll be out of town next weekend too), I'll be really close to being able to set the thing in. I think it is time to start reading up on initially starting the engine and breaking in the cam. Does anyone know if there are any good threads / checklists? If I can't find them out there, I'm going to start putting together some sort of checklist to do before I turn the key. It would be nice to leave as little to chance as I can. As always thanks for any responses. Bryes
138
« on: March 02 2013, 08:08:42 PM »
Yeah, I can't remember ever having something that wouldn't loosen up after finessing it red hot with a big hammer Awhile back I bought an old (preston) vice that was rusted solid. The main screw was busted and I assumed it was from the previous owner trying to free it up. I wasn't looking forward to freeing it up, so I threw some kerosene on it and just forgot about it. Well, years later I was cleaning up my place and was sliding the vice around on the concrete, I shoved on the jaw with my foot and to my amazement the slide was completely free  I always assumed that the kerosene had freed up that vice, but now I'm no longer sure.
139
« on: February 26 2013, 09:16:02 PM »
I had been letting my oil cooler lines soak in penetrating oil (PB Blaster) since last april. Every last one of them were still rusted solid, so last Saturday I reluctantly had to heat them to break them loose.
I always use penetrating oil anyway, but the more time goes on the less useful I think it is in breaking free rusted fasteners. Once the fastener is loosened a bit, then the oil is thin enough to get in and it helps in backing it out. But in most cases heavy corrosion seems to seal out the penetrating oil altogether, which had to be the case with these oil lines. I've noticed before, even after soaking for long periods of time that basically any internal surface not sprayed directly with the oil will be bone dry.
140
« on: January 27 2013, 08:29:47 PM »
Well, I had a pretty good weekend as far as getting things done with the engine. I think I now pretty much have a complete long block now as I was able to install the timing cover, heads, oil pan, rockers / lifters and water pump. I am missing one of the rocker shaft bolts and since I had a bunch of parts on the living room floor, I can only hope that its disappearance and the vacuum cleaner making loud noises are purely coincidental.. .. because I think I emptied that bag  I still have to find a way to tighten the big bolt on the harmonic balancer, but other than that I think it's all assembled properly. Below is the mill in its current state.
141
« on: January 20 2013, 06:17:57 PM »
I wound up ordering the cam from TA, they had a 208/208 grind that everyone seems to have good luck with so I installed it this weekend and degreed it in. I'm glad I did because I initially had the timing mark aligned with the key instead of the (really poorly etched) correct timing mark. My goal for next weekend is to get the timing cover, oil pan and heads installed. It's nice to be in Savannah this time of year, the weather is perfect for working outside 
142
« on: December 27 2012, 10:16:13 AM »
I just called TA and full throttle to find out about the flat and roller cams.
TA seems to be closed for business until Jan 7.
I checked on rollers at full throttle who were very helpful. They said that the heads would need to have the guides machined to install any of their roller cams, which is another good reason for me not to go that route.
I am going to check with NAPA and the other fast food parts chains to see if I can get an American made cam and lifters; then again they will probably just say what I want to hear regardless of where it actually comes from. If not then unless anyone has other ideas, I guess I might just have to wait until after the break to do any further work.
Besides, there are a number of things that I have been putting off doing, like installing the chip, scanmaster, clean the engine bay, install the hotwire kit, that might keep me busy for awhile so it won't all be a waste. I wish I could turn the car around to at least check the fuel pump though, it was supposedly replaced but I think I'll put in a Walbro 340 (I'll take suggestions too) when I can. The shed that I am working out of is so small that my gut can hardly squeeze between the car and wall in order to get back there! I thought after I got the mill running that I'd take the car up to Ohio to get it on the lift and install that stuff.
143
« on: December 27 2012, 09:11:35 AM »
Thanks for all your help Steve!
Earl, you did save me that $$ because once I saw the $15 for shipping I immediately killed the order and eventually got it from NAPA! I owe you big time.
Back to the cam wear issue:
After you set me straight on the rocker ratio, I calculated the total lift for lobe 1 as,
(1.49 - 1.230) * 1.55 = 0.403"
This figure is close to the factory spec of 0.408.
BUT, lobe 7 which corresponds to the #3 cyl intake valve measures 1.457" at the lobe maximum diameter, thus the lift is now,
(1.457 - 1.23)*1.55 = 0.352"
This is 0.032" short of the factory spec of 0.384".
I have done these similar calculations for all lobes, below is a summary for you reading entertainment:
I think I need to be in the market for a new cam as well, let me know what you think.
144
« on: December 27 2012, 12:23:56 AM »
Oh that explains the radiator, I'd just get an external oil cooler though I think.
Earl, are you forgetting though that I have some lobes that are worn by 0.030"?
I would absolutely love to go that route, that would be a cheap way out!
145
« on: December 27 2012, 12:03:16 AM »
Thanks Steve, I'm not going to buy anything but US lifters. Are the TA cams USA too.
I hear Earl on that shipping thing though. I went to TA a couple of weeks back to order a cam button for 12.95 or something and they wanted 15 bucks for shipping! Now I know that shipping prices have went up but that is highway robbery, and it cost them my business.
146
« on: December 26 2012, 11:30:59 PM »
Thanks Earl, I 'll check it out summit tomorrow thanks! Hopefully they'll have the good American made lifters. If not then I guess I'll get the TAs. I just don't see the cam wearing out as an issue when all these cars are running around with 150k + miles on an unopened mill and stock cam. I am not building this thing to go 200k or run 10's, if I were then I would buy the roller cam. By the time the cam fails and takes out the radiator (you'll have to explain that one to me!) as far as I am concerned, my grandkids can worry about it! Plus who is going to want to drive this thing when gas is $120 / gal? Besides do we really know that roller lifters are that reliable? Many flat lifters have run 300k miles and more. Who is to say that rollers won't give out, especially when companies start cutting corners, for all we know they already have. I can imagine steel needle bearing wreaking havoc in the bowls of my engine! As far as the friction goes on the flat tappet cam, that dynamic friction forces you are talking about is a function of the coefficient of kinetic friction (mk) and is defined as: < P = atan(mk) Friction can vary a lot for many different reasons, but for two polished hardened steel surfaces like a cam and lifter it will be very low (maybe as low as 0.1). If its 0.1, then <P = 5 degrees If its 0.2, then <P = 11 degrees Even if the kinetic friction is 0.3, the pressure angel of a flat tappet cam is 17deg which is still way lower than the 30 degree pressure angels seen in a round tappet cam, and the side loads will still be around 50% of round tappets. Those side loads create friction forces that work against the direction of the lifter, reduce power and efficiency, thus giving back some advantage of the roller mechanism. Here is a source that talks about a similar side load advantage for flat tappets in a chevy engines \ http://books.google.com/books?id=UlvzvjzQMsoC&pg=PA92&lpg=PA92&dq=%22pressure+angle%22+flat+tappet&source=bl&ots=DFI9EfSLu6&sig=L4Fb157U7QkknvXXYM1sbf3NyAc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jcHbUJP3HI6I9QTRj4CoBg&ved=0CDwQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=%22pressure%20angle%22%20flat%20tappet&f=falseAlso I think he covers it for more general purpose, F.Y Chen, "Design of Cam Mechanisms" Thanks again Bryes
147
« on: December 26 2012, 08:52:53 PM »
I can afford a roller, but I just can't see where it is worth the extra cash.
In fact, right now I feel like there is no real advantage for me over a new flat tappet. For my setup it seems like longevity is a real advantage to a roller, but then again I'll be driving the car so little (1k/ year maybe) that a flat lifter should hold up until I am in a nursing home anyway.
So I guess the only advantage would be in performance , so that's what I really need to know. Considering I plan on running a stock engine and turbo, how much horsepower or et advantage ( potential for hp counts too) can I expect from the roller as apposed to the $200 cam that Steve suggested?
I would rather spend the cash other places if there is no real advantage for me.
Thanks
Bryes
148
« on: December 26 2012, 07:27:36 PM »
Well if you guys haven't heard of it being a problem then I'm sure it's safe to say its not a problem. Side loading isn't an issue with rollers. If it was, flat tappets would be 100 times worse.
It doesn't seem like it though, with a round lifter (roller or not), unless the cam lobe contacts directly on top of of the lifter, there will always be a side force. With a flat lifter the force will always be in-line with the lifter bore. See the picture below. Either way I just can't justify the extra $600 for the roller, so Steve, what I am thinking is to order the Product ID: TA_V260H 231H.440"-206'/.440"-206',112'
cam and
Product ID: TA_V1405V6 HYDRAULIC LIFTER
I really wish that there was something local because this will pretty much kill my efforts for this week, but then again knowing that these cams are a problem it is not worth getting a cheap cam. At least with this cam I will also know for sure that it will work without any other modifications and not break the bank.
Thanks to everyone once again!
149
« on: December 26 2012, 03:36:02 PM »
Another problem with roller lifters is the side load that it puts on the lifters, which can wear the lifter bores. Have there been any problems created? Earl, I noticed in that "Cam selection" thread that you recommended this kit: http://www.fullthrottlespeed.com/customkititems.asp+kc+001BUROLLMOREL+eqIt is $819 with the springs and pushrods: Would I be able to install into my otherwise completely stock engine without machining? I guess I would consider it bc it comes with everything. Also do you know where it is made? I try to not buy imported parts.
150
« on: December 26 2012, 03:19:07 PM »
Yeah, from the sound of it skewed might be a good description  I just don't see much advantage in spending the extra $$ for this project, so I think I'll stick with the old school cam. Also, maybe I can pick up one locally to get this project back on track for this week. I think NAPA had a cam w. lifter set for maybe $150. Any thoughts?
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