1985 Grand National will not start.

[Big Dawg]

Hi everyone,

Okay here goes. I picked up my 85 Grand National after sitting for over 16 years.

I knew the gas tank and fuel lines needed to either get replaced or cleaned out. So i went ahead and replaced the Gas tank and fuel sender/pump with the Spectra replacements. I cleaned out the fuel line and return lines as well and replaced the fuel filter. I primed and it and got all the air out of the system and had fresh clean fuel at the rails and shrader valve.

After doing all this the car still did not fire up, just cranked and turned over.

So I decided to do a spark plug and spark plug wire replacement along with an oil filter and oil change. I even took the coil pack off and did the ohm meter test and all the ohms were between 11.2 - 11.6. I watched a YouTube video that a member on the site did where he tested the coil pack with the ohm meter and thats what I did. I just don't know if it would be different ohm numbers between a 85 and 87 GN.

After this the car still did not fire up....so i went ahead and changed out the O2 sensor  and air filter and cleaned out the MAF sensor with CRC Sensorcleen. And also changed out the Crank position sensor last night.

The car still hasn't fired up. I am a bit stumped on what to check or look for next.

I have ordered a 86-87 coil pack and ignition module along with the 86-87 hotwire adaptor from Caspers and will be upgrading the i85 gnition system next.

Also I have checked all the fuses and they all are in working order, I also hooked up a OBD1 reader and did not see any error codes at all.

I notice the oil/choke light is almost always lit up on the dash along with the check engine light when I am trying to fire it up.

Anyone know what else I am missing? Or take a look at to narrow this issue down?

Thanks a bunch guys.

[nocooler]

Are the injectors spraying fuel? 

[Big Dawg]

Are the injectors spraying fuel?

Totally slipped my mind to even check the injectors.  What is the easiest way to check? Take themnoff the manifold whole still plugged into the harness? Or unplug them and get them tested at a shop?

Thanks

[Steve Wood]

Okay, I have never worked on a hot air car, but, in reality, all cars work the same.

From my site, here is a link to Jimmy Testa's troubleshootin g procedure.

http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/jim_testa.htm

now, to determine if you have spark, you can use a spark tester inserted between the plug wire and the plug and crank it over to see if there is spark showing.  Or, cheap guys like me, pull a plug wire off, connect it to a spark plug and lay the plug on the valve cover so it grounds it, and crank it over while watching the electrode on the plug to see if a spark is jumping the gap.

At that point, if you have spark, you can pull the hose off the throttlebody and spray some carb cleaner into the intake thru the throttlebody, and see if it fires and tries to run.

If you did not have spark, you have to fix that problem first.

If you did have spark and it does try to run when you spray carb cleaner or starting fluid into it.  You need to check and see if you have injector pulse by using a NOID light-they are cheap to buy.

One of the common problems on cars that have been sitting for a long time is that the injectors stick closed.  If that happens, they will not spray fuel and the car will not start.
Some times you can hold something like an extension to the base of each injector and tap it lightly with a hammer a few times.  Do all of them.  It may run after doing that.  On the other hand, the injectors need to be cleaned or better, replaced.

If the noid light is not showing a blink...then you gotta figure that out.

Here is a link that I have on my site for trouble shooting hot airs.

http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/8485_trouble_shooting.htm

[Big Dawg]

Thank you very much for this Steve!

[Steve Wood]

My pleasure.  We will help you try to sort it out.

[nocooler]

Hot-air cars make the passenger side injectors a pita to get to. Start with the ones you can see!

[Forzfed]

Listen to Steve!  But I am willing to bet those injectors are plugged solid or seized!

Hot-air cars make the passenger side injectors a pita to get to. Start with the ones you can see!

I've changed the injectors a couple times on my 85.  I think I pulled the turbo, so long ago I can remember for sure.

[Big Dawg]

Hey guys,

Some good news........i lightly tapped the injectors on the Drivers side with an extension and hammer and tried starting the car up and right away it sounded like it was trying to fire up, I cranked it over about a dozen times and than tapped the injectors and than 2 on the passenger side under the turbo and it actually started up for a few seconds. Wish you could have seen the smile on my face.....espec ially on my kids faces.....my son is 11 and is a total car fanatic.  He already told his sister that he is going to drive the car to grad, and that she can drive my 442.

I am thinking I am going to take the turbo off and have it looked over and possibly rebuilt, and try to find a local shop here to see if i am able to get the injectors cleaned. I may just order a set of replacements.

Can anyone tell me if I should keep the stock injectors or get some higher lb/hr injectors??? Also does anyone have the specs of the stock injectors for an 85?

Thanks alot guys.

[Forzfed]

Upgrade the injectors for sure!  If you are going to rebuild the turbo think about upgrading it to a TA-33, basically a little bit bigger compressor wheel that will work really good with a stock combo.

[Steve Wood]

Amazing what one can do with a hammer, huh!?

I would agree on the injectors.  You will need a new chip to match them.  Check with Eric Marshall of TurboTweak for both injectors and the chip.

[nocooler]

Before we go down the rabbit hole. Know that the hot air cars are the bastard child in the buick world - they don't get much love.
Now is the time to decide what you want to do with the car and build it appropriately that way you aren't spending money twice. I'm not up to date on chips but they are pretty limited for the hot-air ecm, but you can upgrade to the 86/87 computer to open up some options.

[Scoobum]

Here's the injector chart...number s will be on the injector.

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm

[Scoobum]

Reading from Erics forum, you can swap in an 86-87 ECM and use Powerlogger. He also recommends swapping out to an LT1 MAF and Translator. And I'd grab his street chip, if the car doesn't have one. Stock injectors are 28 lb.

[Big Dawg]

Reading from Erics forum, you can swap in an 86-87 ECM and use Powerlogger. He also recommends swapping out to an LT1 MAF and Translator. And I'd grab his street chip, if the car doesn't have one. Stock injectors are 28 lb.

Okay Thank you fir the info,

I was actually thinking of ordering the 37lb injectors from racetronix, but am still unsure. The 86-87 ECM idea is a great idea as well.....man i,m a bit confused. Are there 86-87 ECM's being sold on the site often?