Stock Header removal

[gnonyx]

Hi All,
I forgot when I replaced the stock header gaskets many years ago when I was younger in age it was a breeze, but now my age has caught up to me and I can't remember shit.
I know this much, to remove the driver side header, I have to remove the driver side tire to get to the header bolts, and unbolt underneath the crossover pipe.
Do I have to remove the downpipe to get to the pass. side header bolts, or can the downpipe stays bolted in place and I work around it to remove the pass. header bolts?

[Steve Wood]

First, there is no such thing as a stock header gasket.  They did not come with gaskets and many of us just check that the header surface is still flat and install with a very thin coat of high temp rtv. 

If you can get a wrench on the header bolts, then you don't need to pull the downpipe off the turbo, but I have found it easier to remove the turbo and thus the downpipe just to make it easier to position the header without the weight of the turbo.  If you used the "slotted ends" felpro gaskets, it makes it easier to get it lined up, install the two end bolts, and then drop the gasket it place.

[gnonyx]

First, there is no such thing as a stock header gasket.  They did not come with gaskets and many of us just check that the header surface is still flat and install with a very thin coat of high temp rtv.

If you can get a wrench on the header bolts, then you don't need to pull the downpipe off the turbo, but I have found it easier to remove the turbo and thus the downpipe just to make it easier to position the header without the weight of the turbo.  If you used the "slotted ends" felpro gaskets, it makes it easier to get it lined up, install the two end bolts, and then drop the gasket it place.

My bad, I know the original installation came with no gasket, like you said header surface is flat, but both of my original headers has a thin line cracks on them. During that time it was cheaper to obtain good used stock headers, and back then many has mention to me to put header gaskets

[Scoobum]

As Steve says, these engines never came with gaskets. Over a gazillion heat/cooling cycles shit warps. In a perfect world you'd bolt them back up without gaskets. If they're dead straight then you're good to go. The cheapass Felpros with the hooked ends swap out the easiest if they ain't straight.


Pull the downpipe out...and while you're at it pound out the shit in the convertor. The turbo will spool faster and your throttle response will be crisper. Yank the turbo off it...and you'll notice the flange on it will likely be pitted. RJC sells a nice Scoob approved gasket for it. The two nuts on the crossover on the DS are a breeze to get at...the passenger side...not so much. When you snap the exhaust studs, hit your local muffler shop up to remove them and get them to set you up with the proper studs and nuts. Scoob has an engine removal vid from underneath what has to be done.


Dan and I had a DS header warped so bad we cut the flange to get it to flush up.

[gnonyx]

As Steve says, these engines never came with gaskets. Over a gazillion heat/cooling cycles shit warps. In a perfect world you'd bolt them back up without gaskets. If they're dead straight then you're good to go. The cheapass Felpros with the hooked ends swap out the easiest if they ain't straight.


Pull the downpipe out...and while you're at it pound out the shit in the convertor. The turbo will spool faster and your throttle response will be crisper. Yank the turbo off it...and you'll notice the flange on it will likely be pitted. RJC sells a nice Scoob approved gasket for it. The two nuts on the crossover on the DS are a breeze to get at...the passenger side...not so much. When you snap the exhaust studs, hit your local muffler shop up to remove them and get them to set you up with the proper studs and nuts. Scoob has an engine removal vid from underneath what has to be done.


Dan and I had a DS header warped so bad we cut the flange to get it to flush up.

Thanks for the info
I have the Fel-Pros gasket; do I also spray Permatex Copper high temp sealant on one side or both sides?

[Steve Wood]

Won't hurt

[gnonyx]

Won't hurt

Thanks again Steve
will post again when finish

[gnonyx]

Okay here is the latest scoop, I plugged one exhaust pipe and the other side I place a shop vacuum hose blowing towards the engine. I then remove the A/F sensor from the downpipe and installed a brass air fitting in place for the smoke machine.
Turn everything on and found the drive side header and crossover leaking with some baby oil mist from the smoker extruding from the header gasket and crossover pipe.
As I started to loosen the crossover bolt at the driver side header, one of the bolt was a bit loose.
Is this called the collector where the header and crossover pipe connects?
Anyway, I removed the DS header, but not the crossover as visual it look good and not out of shape.
Installed the DS header with Fel-pro gasket, spray exhaust side with Permatex copper high temp sealant, and I also used a high temp copper rtv around the ds header were it connects to the crossover pipe, bolted everything and waited the next day to start engine.
Started engine and I was very upset to found the the collector leaking of smoke again. The sad part is I can't tell if the smoke is coming from the collector or from the ds header where the heat shield is spot welded to the header.
At this point I don't know if I should remove the ds header again, or remove the crossover pipe and replace it with the
TA Performance Crossover pipe
Any opinion would help, Thanks

[Scoobum]

My guess would be the flange on the DS crossover is fukd...and not sealing. There's a ton of room on the DS...so you should be able to see and feel if it's sealed up. I always SLOWLY tightened the nuts and looked to make sure it was even all the way around for a perfect seal. One of us should have had you post a pic of the flanges/lips on the crossover when you had it off.

[earlbrown]

If your DS header still has the heat shield on it, it needs to be removed so you can weld the crack up.

Are you sure the smoke isn't spraying onto the junction from underneath the shield?

[Scoobum]

I assumed he had it welded long ago...

[gnonyx]

If your DS header still has the heat shield on it, it needs to be removed so you can weld the crack up.

Are you sure the smoke isn't spraying onto the junction from underneath the shield?

Hi Earl,
Yes I still have the shield, and it's hard to say about smoke since the smoke was clouding around that area.
Many, many years ago the original headers had both crack on them, and at that time it was cheaper to buy another original headers. During that time I haven't driven the car only occasional start and drive down the block, but not hard driving or fully open the turbo.
I guess I have to remove the ds header and remove the shield to see if its crack or not 

[earlbrown]

Oh, it's going to be cracked.    Every single one of them crack.

[Steve Wood]

I used to jack the car up with it running, crawl under and stick my hand up there...I could tell if it was leaking from the cross over joint, or higher up from a crack from the position of my hand


Great thing about running in open loop full time is that small cracks don't affect performance as long as not large enough to affect spool up

[TexasT]

As above, not a doubt in my mind it is cracked. Get the 14mm sockets and wrenches out and get to pulling. Pay attention to that L bracket, gm put it there for a reason and I believe it is needed, and needs to be put back on there.