Okay, Grumpy! Suspension question

[Steve Wood]

yep, but on both ends or just the front?  thinking about the diff ears.  I think I have seen solid type ends for the ears, but, I may be dreaming

[Steve Wood]

here are some old articles but they are pretty simple and explain some of the concepts

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/traction-tips-street-strip-suspensions/
https://www.onallcylinders.com/2019/01/02/ask-away-with-jeff-smith-eliminating-wheel-hop-in-a-60s-era-chevelle/

https://www.onedirt.com/tech/chassis-suspension/finding-your-center-finding-your-front-and-rear-roll-center/
https://www.racingjunk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17130

[nocooler]

Yup - TRZ has them. https://www.trzmotorsports.com/product/spherical-housing-bearings-2/

[Steve Wood]

Thanks, Jeremy     Yep, that is what I saw some place but I recall wondering if it was what I thought it was LOL


I have always been interested in suspension theory but I find it confusing because physics is basically physics.  Yet it seems to me that it is not always clear cut as we have some very smart and experienced people that don't agree on how to "do it".


It seems to me that when you are getting into the Nines, it's time for solid "bushings" (rod ends) because the forces applied are so great that conventional set ups will not provide the consistency required.  On the other hand, solids probably bind a lot in normal driving and the life expectancy is probably terrible if one is driving on the street. Perhaps the ones like Jeremy linked above allow more linear movement and prevent binding but they probably wear quickly in normal use.  Maybe...


I'm running adjustable uppers that Chuck Leeper made with rod ends on the front but conventional bushings on the diff ears on my GN.  I have not checked them in awhile but they seemed to be doing okay.  Of course, they probably only have 15k on them as I don't drive it all that often in recent years.  Pretty sure the diff bushings are over due to be replaced, tho.  I am pretty sure I have some replacements but I am not sure which is which at the moment (or any moment ) They were the harder durometer ones that GM used on the 1LE handling package as I recall.


After reading a few hundred articles and my copy of Door Slammers again, I have come to the conclusion I should have asked you and saved myself a lot of time!


It seems to me, that a G Body that is going to be driven would probably be well served by parallel to the pavement lowers, or near to it, and uppers with the front end being adjustable downward to pull the I.C. back behind the CG a bit.  The I.C. should probably be slightly above the neutral or anti-squat line to provide a little chassis separation.


I freely admit that in a month, I might have a different opinion!


One of these would appear to me to be a good way to approach the upper adjustment.  [size=78%]http://www.baselinesuspensions.com/kits/chevy.htm[/size]       I don't know if anyone else offers similar but I would think there should be someone doing so.

[nocooler]

The guys I see struggle the most are the ones with suspension parts from 10 different places and they just bolt it on thinking everything will just work together.
I thought ahead enough to all of my suspension parts from one chassis shop. I can call them and get baseline settings for angles and shock settings. The only thing I bought else where was the sway bar, and that was because I didn’t want to wait 6 weeks for it.

[Grumpy]

Well almost what Steve said  9.7s with 1.40 short times was our awakening with poly bushings. Russ did them quite a few times. Her car could launch in rain. Suddenly car was all over the place. At that time she had poly bushing and UPR's adjustable upper control arms and stock shocks. Very simple set up. BUT if your racing all the time go with the "cool guy " parts. All her suspension now is TRZ's with Viking dual adjustable shocks.

... As you guys know I am not crazy about all the "cool guy" stuff. BIG learning curves. I am old an don't do "learning" anymore. Russ is the thinker. ummm WILD thinker!  I did get a stock location intercooler back in. Front mount is GONE !

One cool guy part that helped a lot was a Fast type system. Everyone makes em now.

[Grumpy]

The guys I see struggle the most are the ones with suspension parts from 10 different places and they just bolt it on thinking everything will just work together.
I thought ahead enough to all of my suspension parts from one chassis shop. I can call them and get baseline settings for angles and shock settings. The only thing I bought else where was the sway bar, and that was because I didn’t want to wait 6 weeks for it.

I agree on getting stuff from one place. The shocks are a new game you will have to conquer. Track conditions change to.

So are ya getting closer to the running/driving car ? 

[Steve Wood]

It's kinda funny.  Everything that I read agrees with Dan and Jeremy.  They all say getting the instant center location is important, but, air pressure and shock settings are what separate the men from boys.... and that takes lotsa testing.

[nocooler]

Dan - I haven’t seen the car in two weeks. It’s close to running but lots of sorting out before it goes down the track.


Steve - it’s be funny to plot out and see what one of those donk lift kits does to the cg/ic


Obliviously as power goes up the window of what works and what doesn’t shrinks.

[Steve Wood]

I started reading several articles on the subject and discovered they were talking about off road stuff.  I had never thought about what happened when you put tall donks under a lift kit.  I'm not sure some of those things ever intersect.


I noticed that 90-10 shocks are basically obsolete on the faster cars these days.  I learned quite a few things that might not be germane, but then, my thought process is seldom germane anyway.


The quicker we go, the more binary the set up becomes.

[Grumpy]

I air pressure and shock settings are what separate the men from boys.... and that takes lotsa testing.

It racked my brain trying to understand it. 90/10 shocks are from the old school. We spent last summer living at the track and racing trying different set ups. All sorts of weather conditions.. Mid 90's hot an humid wasn't my idea of fun. But as Russ would say ya can't have it ideal all the time.. Most guys show up in April/May then they disappear till Sep/Oct. Russ thrives on this stuff. Like Melissa they keep on coming up with more ideas.  Me.... way beyond my comprehension.   

[Grumpy]

Dan - I haven’t seen the car in two weeks. It’s close to running but lots of sorting out before it goes down the track.

THERE IS LIFE OUT THERE BESIDES CARS  ya just pick away. 

[Steve Wood]

Dan, yesterday at 2:45, it was 105.5.  At 3:15, I think it was 106.7.   Suddenly, it dropped to 102, then started to come up again.  Then it dropped again.  I went outside and there was a big cloud over the sun.  I started to read and dozed off for about 30 minutes.  I looked at the thermometer and it was 86!  Went out and there were big thunderheads all over the sky.  Texas, it is what it wants to be

[wmsonta]

90/10 shocks.
I have not seen an actual 90/10 shock since the early '70's. They were replaced with 3 way adjustable frt shocks by about '75. I still own a pair. From memory 60/40, 80/20 and 90/10.

[wmsonta]

 those donk lift kits does to the cg/ic

Are you referring to 'no hop' bars? If so, I will have your answers. Do they raise the upper rear mounting?