National Healthcare

[Steve Wood]

Your remarks demonstrate what happens when the free enterprise system is manipulated by the government to eliminate competition.


Once again, I will state that government in this country no longer follows the model "of the people, for the people, by the people".  It is controlled by the international rich that hide behind the straw man of socialism to tilt the tables of enterprise toward the chosen few.  There is far more reason for an American revolution today than there was in 1776. Medical care is simply the tip of the ice berg.

On the other hand, the socialist system removes the incentive to rise above the average so that the excellent go elsewhere.  I suspect that in another 20 years, Canada will look completely different than it does today.  It's small population makes it easier to change and immigration will make it the next France, or Germany in a shorter period of time as the population explodes and a new "Canadian" takes over.  Project the birth rates.

[Forzfed]

Lots of truth to that, Steve!  Most government representative s are from wealthy families.  Then you have the lobbyists that are constantly manipulating those representative s.  Nothing is clear cut like people might or want to think.
It's like dealing with budget's and the ideology of if you don't use it you lose it!  Which leads to wasteful spending because nobody wants to lose their budget.  It's almost like saying if you don't spend your full pay cheque we are going to give you less.
I'm all for free enterprise and making money I just don't believe you should take advantage of the sick. 

[Steve Wood]

The only reason we take advantage of the sick is due to the corrupt practices allowed by government.  It is not a free market place

[nocooler]

It’s an expensive time to have chronic medical conditions. We hit our $6000 maximum out of pocket usually by mid April. $1000 a month for my medications alone.

[earlbrown]

My cousin whom lived in Cali worked for big Pharma she was telling a pharmacist the price for some pills which were $2 and over heard him telling the patient $20/pill.

A lot of that has to do with all the compliance (among other non-producing expenses) here in the states. If you want to sell that $2 pill for $3 here, you'd shutting down your practice in a couple days.

By the time you pay for all the assistants to be an insurance liaison, someone to control the storage room you had to build to house all the free samples from drug reps, the premiums for your $10 million in malpractice insurance, and all the people you treated that never pay the bills....      ..you end up with a lot of money that has to be passed on to the poor saps that actually pay their bills

Plus, I don't know how official it is but there's two prices for medial care. The 'normal' one if you're using insurance and one you can get if you're paying out of pocket, AND ask for it.     A few years ago when my dad was going through his second round of cancer, the local hospital put some pool float looking stockings over his legs.  The price was right at $720 a day to rent them.  My dad was like ''goddamn, how much can I just buy them and be done with it?''.  Next thing you know, it was something like $45 to use them.   (and what was really bad, is it had nothing to do with his cancer. Tt was just a cash grab while they avoided the very low percentage change of dieing of a blood clot from laying in bed.  I.E. to avoid a lawsuit from the estate and make a couple  thou doing it)

[good2win22]

Lots of folks head to Mexico to buy their meds as well. I know some of my family that has done that

[Forzfed]

Plus, I don't know how official it is but there's two prices for medial care. The 'normal' one if you're using insurance and one you can get if you're paying out of pocket, AND ask for it.     A few years ago when my dad was going through his second round of cancer, the local hospital put some pool float looking stockings over his legs.  The price was right at $720 a day to rent them.  My dad was like ''goddamn, how much can I just buy them and be done with it?''.  Next thing you know, it was something like $45 to use them.   (and what was really bad, is it had nothing to do with his cancer. Tt was just a cash grab while they avoided the very low percentage change of dieing of a blood clot from laying in bed.  I.E. to avoid a lawsuit from the estate and make a couple  thou doing it)

There is 2 prices here too.  People with insurance actually pay more here.  Rarely did I ever have to take medication.  But when I was self employed I told the doctor I couldn't afford it and he gave me the free samples.  Same with dentists I paid almost 1/2 price from what they charge my insurance company for the same treatment.

[Steve Wood]

Earl, I don't know anything about "official" but it's common knowledge that there is the Insurance cost and the non-insurance cost.  And, then, there is the Medi-care cost versus the cash cost.

Insurance companies, whether health, or property, are not in the business to make payouts.  I have relatives that are still fighting their insurance companies to get compensated for their home damage from Hurrican Harvey. Most give up and take what they are offered which is usually pennies on the dollar.  Insurance companies do not lose money.

Medical insurance companies fight you all the way to avoid paying for your treatment.  They argue it is not warranted, or you are too old, or there are other options.  Anything involving long term treatment is going to the mat.

Dealing with Medicare is a bureaucratic nightmare.  The Doctor will give you a ton of paperwork to fill out involving your ailment and your need.  Then the doctor must fill out his share justifying why you require his chosen course of treatment.  It takes a complete staff that does nothing but fill out forms, negotiate with Medicare, etc.

My son's wife is an RN and she is the manager of a children's clinic.  He is insured thru her plan as it is better than his company offered.  He works for a small IT company where her clinic is part of a much larger operation of clinics and hospitals in Houston.

I have forgotten what his deductible is but it is more than they can afford.  They go to walk in clinics and say Cash when asked how payment will be made.  It is usually less than half of what the insurance cost would be and they would not get anything from the insurance due to the high deductible.

Around here, the cash cost is often about 25% of the insurance charged cost.

My Dad was a pharmacist by education, but, for much of his life, he did other things.  Around 1960, he was talked into taking a job as a part time pharmacist for a big drugstore in Bryan, Texas.  He immediately saw  how much profit there was made on prescriptions, but, also how much money was lost on poor business practices and credit losses.

He opened a small pharmacy and called it Ken Wood's Discount Pharmacy and it was cash only.  He had one mark up for every item in the store whether it was prescription drugs, over the counter drugs, cigarettes, hot water bottles, whatever.    He took the wholesale price that he paid, divided by 0.8 and that was the sales price.  That meant some of his prescriptions might be $0.75 instead of the regular pharmacies minimum price of $5.00.

Bryan is next door to College Station, the home of Texas A&M and it had a lot of married college students that were going to school on the Veteran's bill.  Most of them had little money, and he did not do credit, yet, I saw him get up at 3 in the morning to go fill a prescription for a baby that was sick that belonged to someone that had no money.  He refused to give them credit but he told them what they owed and said, you can pay me when you can.  Lousy business policy, but, I don't ever remembered him getting stiffed.

Bryan College Station was less than 50,000 people at the time and within a year, he was filling over 200 prescriptions a day and the big drugstores and the pharmacies that belonged to doctors were filling hardly any.

In 1966, several of the of the competitors approached him and offered to give him a lot of money for his little pharmacy to get him out of town.  He took it and moved back to the ranch where I sit now.

He made damn good money on what appeared to be a very low gross margin.  He never made that much being a rancher, but, he was happy.

Jason, I know a lot of people that cross over to Mexico to shop for medicine or get dental work performed.

Putting that behind us, people go to the doctor for things that we never went for.  I know people that go to the emergency room almost once a week.  They don't pay, and the cost of treatment is passed to those that can.  People are never cured, they are given just enough medicine to get rid of the symptoms but not enough to permanently get rid of the problem.  I have relatives whose kids have had whooping cough almost monthly at times.  I never knew anyone that had it.

Until government is forced to live under the same conditions as the people they allegedly serve, things will not get better.  they will continue to grow worse.

[Forzfed]

Insurance is only good if you don't need it!

Steve, good on your Dad for having an ethical practice!    Look at Walmart it has low markup but makes up for it with mass volume sales.

I see a lot of stupid practices at work.  It seems like all the upper management gets brain surgery to remove their brain.  Because you can't even talk common sense to them.  It's clear to see problems in our medical system but yet they continue down the same path.

[Steve Wood]

I used to work for my Dad. He was a much harder worker than me.  LOL

Excellence does not come with a lack of competition.  I used to say that all I wanted was an unfair edge.  In important matters such as medicine there has to be fair competition and we do not have that anymore.  Excellence is no longer a goal.

Government seems to be corrupt as an accepted matter.  I think this is world-wide, but, sometimes it exceeds the accepted norm. 

Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely-Lord Acton

[Forzfed]

Last summer I walked by our ER and noticed two men in black and extra police.  Never really thought anything about it.  Later, the boss mentioned that Jimmy Carter was in the ER.  I would have walked through if I knew that.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/carter-talks-about-hospitalization-winnipeg-1.4291529

[Steve Wood]

I remember faintly something about him being treated.  he was a terrible president, but he has done a lot of good since

[earlbrown]

Putting that behind us, people go to the doctor for things that we never went for.  I know people that go to the emergency room almost once a week.  They don't pay, and the cost of treatment is passed to those that can. 

Yep. Then you've got people like me that will break bones and not go to the doctor.


   I guess it's called ''balance''. 

[Grumpy]

I used to work for my Dad. He was a much harder worker than me.  LOL

Mine was the same way !! But I finally did more than him when he was 80 years old 

[Grumpy]

I can only speak on the VA.  Met with them in August of 2018 to have blood work and physical completed.  Was referred to the TBI center for follow up.  For those that aren't aware, I had to land a chinook when I didn't really want to over in Iraq back in 2005 and (....I bounced my head around the cockpit a little bit upon touchdown.)....  Appointment was set for 28 Dec 2018.  I was contacted on 12 Dec 2018 and told that the appointment needed to be rescheduled due to one of the physicians having a family emergency.  I thought the reason to be a bit vague as the appointment was still a few weeks away but ok.  Appointment was rescheduled for sometime in May 2019.  So now I wait...

This explains a lot  I am NOT a vet but they should get the best care available. Go to the front of the line anywhere they want to go. Welfare rates more than you guys !! UNREAL !