National Healthcare

[Grumpy]

Putting that behind us, people go to the doctor for things that we never went for.  I know people that go to the emergency room almost once a week.  They don't pay, and the cost of treatment is passed to those that can. 

Yep. Then you've got people like me that will break bones and not go to the doctor.


   I guess it's called ''balance''. 

NO !!! they call that self employed !! 

[Forzfed]

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/medicare-for-all-means-long-waits-for-poor-care-and-americans-wont-go-for-it-once-they-learn-these-facts

Here is the problem with that article.  Most provinces have private clinics as well.  Alberta had private clinics back in the early 90's.  I know this because my buddy's dad went to one when he lived here.  BC has had private clinics for a while too.  We have a private clinic here in our province.  One of my friend's went there a few years ago.

There are wait times but that mostly comes down to seriousness of illness and the stupidity of management in charge of these facilities.  I remember talking to the woman in charge of the MRI's in our hospital.  She said they could easily catch up by staying open an extra 4 hrs a day.  But some how they hired someone to over see her which slowed down the process!


My hospital does all the heart surgeries in the province.  It's funny how many of our vendors have had stints put in and bypasses.  That being said, nobody waited.  They all had surgery that day or the next.  How come no one ever mentions that???

[Steve Wood]

This appears to be a Canadian article   https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/waiting-your-turn-2018.pdf

I'm glad your private clinics do better.  I continue to believe that competition improves quality.    Your comments about how things could be better if management were better reflects what happens when government runs anything.

Now, there is not a chance in hell that the U.S. will select a single server model.  This would greatly reduce side income to quite a few prominent politicians.

[Forzfed]

Let's not forget to mention all the people from other countries that happen to be "vacationing" in Canada and receive treatment!  From giving birth to cancer treatment, etc.  Is that mentioned in the report?
The private clinics here have MRI's and CT scanners.  You could have one done in hours if you wanted to.

[Steve Wood]

Yes, but we are discussing one provider national healthcare. There would be no private system being by proposed at the moment and no private insurance. Be

[daveismissing]

People should have access to healthcare IMO.
I'm not going to defend our system, it could be greatly improved. I believe we have 10 times the medical bureaucrats that Germany has on a per patient basis. Nuts!

[Steve Wood]

I am not disputing that everyone needs medical care...at least to some degree.  If you don't like your nose, or your boobs, I think that is on you.  But if you are suffering from something that affects your quality of life, then you should be able to get attention.

I am disputing the efficiency of any governmental system to handle such things. 

Before we embark upon another government system, (The federal government is a top three employer in this country the last I looked) we need to address all the factors that have driven the cost of care up so much.

Also, we give a lot of lip service to curing various diseases, but, in practice, we want to sell treatment rather than cures.

[Forzfed]

Yes, but we are discussing one provider national healthcare. There would be no private system being by proposed at the moment and no private insurance. Be

I understand that but I'm just saying that we are actually 2 tier.  We have discussed our 2 tier system at work many times.  Are there wait time, yes!  But how is paying outrageous insurance better?  My one friend who lives in the US had cancer and her Insurance company kept rejecting her treatment?  How is that not a wait time?  She had to get money from her family for treatment.  And how many people have gone bankrupt in the States because of medical conditions?  I remember on the old board some posts of next door neighbors that went bankrupt because of medical conditions.

So I ask, what is the solution?

[Forzfed]

Also, we give a lot of lip service to curing various diseases, but, in practice, we want to sell treatment rather than cures.

That is very true!  I remember my cousin's friend had cancer and went on a special trial.  He only popped two pills and the cancer was gone.  Yet no signs of this cure making it's way to market!

[good2win22]

As long as money and power are involved there is no solution.

[Forzfed]

As long as money and power are involved there is no solution.

So true. 

[Steve Wood]

As long as money and power are involved there is no solution.

and that is why a government system will not work.  Our elected officials dance like puppets on a string in the presence of money and power while federal employees do not fear for their jobs for either doing nothing, or screwing things up.

It must be competitive free enterprise and the tax system must be changed to encourage R&D and the sharing of new drugs with competitor manufacturing.  It should go without saying that the bureaucratic must be greatly reduced and caps put on potential litigation unless criminal intent can be shown.

The introduction of the AHCA enabled prices to skyrocket as compared to prior costs.  Typical government

[Forzfed]

I agree, Government is Evil!

[reality]

As long as money and power are involved there is no solution.

and that is why a government system will not work.  Our elected officials dance like puppets on a string in the presence of money and power while federal employees do not fear for their jobs for either doing nothing, or screwing things up.

It must be competitive free enterprise and the tax system must be changed to encourage R&D and the sharing of new drugs with competitor manufacturing.  It should go without saying that the bureaucratic must be greatly reduced and caps put on potential litigation unless criminal intent can be shown.

The introduction of the AHCA enabled prices to skyrocket as compared to prior costs.  Typical government

IDK Steve. Sound a lot like socialism to me.

[Steve Wood]

You are in a better position to make that call than I .