Question for my American friends?

[Forzfed]

I see that lots of Replubicans do not like Obamacare or the affordable care act.  Being Canadian it sounds like it would be a good plan.  So what are the things that you don't like about it?  Is the main issue an increase in taxes?

[Steve Wood]

extemely high cost-most people could not afford a policy that would cover much and the ridiculous deductibles mean you will probably be dead before coverage kicks in.

Also, some of us have seen what happens to seriously ill Canadian friends when they have to wait on a bed to come open in a cancer hospital, etc.

Add the inability to see the doctor you want to see is not reassuring, either.

Finally, the administrative cost of running hospitals is skyrocketing as compared to the actual cost of health care.

[Forzfed]

My cousin used to work for big Pharma in Cali, and the mark up on pills was outrageous!  I have a friend, she is a nurse in Florida and the amount they charge for stuff is mine boggling!  A guy came in that was bitten by a rattler.  They charged him $22k for anit-venom.  He was 22 or around there and just came off his parents coverage.
With the Canadian system they look at age. The younger you are the faster you will get treatment for serious cases.  I'm all for a two-tier system here!  One of the biggest problems with our system is you have people constantly seeing the doctors for no reason!

[nocooler]

The biggest issue I hear is people don’t like being told they need to have healthcare, and are fined if they do not. There is a whole income bracket that my not have coverage from their employer and make just above the cut off for government assistance.

IMO- it’s a bottom line thing. No one wants to pay for it and the ones that can’t pay for it, drive the cost up for those that do. There isn’t a good answer, healthcare costs money.

[Forzfed]

I work at the number 1 cardio hospital here in the city.  I see first hand what goes on.  There are people that abuse the system.  We have people coming from other countries to get stuff done for free!  I understand helping people out but when you are bumping someone that has contributed to the system, that is not right!
One of my parent's friend that was in his late 60's got cancer and the doctor he saw didn't want to do anything.  He went to another doctor and they said no problem we can treat that and he was cancer free for over 10 years.

My buddy that is in his 40's just got diagnosed with cancer 2 weeks ago.  He started treatment last Tuesday.

[TexasT]

Obamacare is just another tax on the working class. Trying to get some more out of the hard work of the half that does actually have gainful employment,  to support the other half that doesn't. Nothing about healthcare, all about keeping the free ride going and the votes keep coming.

If you want health insurance there are plenty of great employers who offer such, and if that doesn't meet your desires plenty of insurers who now offer inflated rates due to the govt stipulations placed on them due to the "affordable" care act.

[Steve Wood]

In 2000, my manager of the Canadian headquarters in Calgary had had pneumonia over a couple of years.  Finally, he was allowed to see a specialist who after obtaining permission to run some specialized testing, discovered he was suffering from advanced mesothelioma and was told he would be notified when a bed came available in the hospital that handled this kind of illness.

After a couple of weeks of waiting, I arranged for him to be seen in Houston at M.D. Anderson where he was examined and told that the disease was in its final stages and all they could do was keep him comfortable. He was gone in a couple of months.

My impression, in Canada, was that it was a great system for the young with a simple problem.  My experiences in London were that it was basically a system that would have been great if one lived in the middle ages where dirt and ill treatment were the norm.

There was a reason that so many doctors fled Europe years ago to come to the U.S. and we benefited from it.  Now the quality of doctors, especially in rural ares is terrible.  Many are not even M.D's but are D.O.s.

The average Doctor/hospital is dominated by admin whose job is to do the government mandated paperwork.  A simple appendectomy can cost over 30K.  Medicine prices are grossly inflated and the government makes sure that medicine cannot be imported.  It is no accident that the medical industry is so profitable.   Lawyers, politicians, insurance companies, and large hospital conglomerates all conspire to offer minimum services at maximum costs.

I don't know hardly anyone in this area that can afford insurance.  One little discussed fact is that if one goes to to the Emergency Room, one can get outstanding service in the cities and received a ridiculously over-priced bill which will often be cut in half if one will pay for it on the spot.  On the other hand, if one does not pay for it, one will probably never pay for it and the costs will simply be fudged into the next patients price.

I tell people frequently to go to the ER and get treatment because they have already paid for it one way or the other.

Thanks for already confirming what I have already seen.  People that are old, or have expensive diseases, are kicked to the side in order to take the young with simple treatment needs.  That insures that any research progress in seeking cures for serious illness while the drug companies continue to do the same...treat but not cure.

Nationalized medical treatment is worse than cancer.  It is terminal with no hope of survival and it will cause steady regression in medical health.    I remember back 50 years ago working around the world how pitiful medical treatment was in many places.  Now, it has reached here.

 

[Forzfed]

I'm not saying that our system is better, because it clearly isn't.  There are better medicare systems in the world.  I would charge people that are abusing it!  It also comes down to the doctor, if you have a good doctor the system here works much better.  A friend of mine that had Leukemia at an early age had issues in his late 30's and he was getting tests done within days.  Even the tech at the Hospital were asking him if he was a athlete because it got in so quick!    I'm fine with a two-tier system and there are provinces that have it, Alberta included.
I don't have an idea about what the Obama care entails or that you have to pay a deductible. I for one would not want to pay more in taxes especially considering how much I pay already!

[TexasT]

Oops wrong thread

[nocooler]

I could write a long post and be called a liberal, but I’ll make it short and you’ll probably still call me liberal.
At this point the state level programs here in Michigan are better than the federal level programs.
I think as much as everyone hates Obamacare it’s a step in the right direction. I think if we were to move forward it should start at the state level. I’m sure social security pissed a lot of people off when it went into effect. It’s not a perfect program but millions have benefited from it. Most employees are already sharing the cost of medical insurance with their employer, coverage varies from company to company. Why not pay it to one source, they partner with existing insurance companies, do all the negotiating, and be able to have more coverage options with comparable or better coverage?

[earlbrown]

I don't have an idea about what the Obama care entails or that you have to pay a deductible.

The premiums go through the roof every month for 'coverage' (not actual healthcare but a legal 'policy').  The deductible also goes through the roof as well.

  So basically you have to pay an assload of money until you need it. Then when you're actually sick, the deducible is so high, you're pretty much self insuring.

  It was just another boondoggle created by former king obama to force a cash grab on the 1/2 that pays taxes.

[TexasT]

I could write a long post and be called a liberal, but I’ll make it short and you’ll probably still call me liberal.
At this point the state level programs here in Michigan are better than the federal level programs.
I think as much as everyone hates Obamacare it’s a step in the right direction. I think if we were to move forward it should start at the state level. I’m sure social security pissed a lot of people off when it went into effect. It’s not a perfect program but millions have benefited from it. Most employees are already sharing the cost of medical insurance with their employer, coverage varies from company to company. Why not pay it to one source, they partner with existing insurance companies, do all the negotiating, and be able to have more coverage options with comparable or better coverage?

What you are suggesting is essentially what my union job does for my family and myself.

Why not pay it to one place? This puts the control at one place. Not really where our ancestors wanted to be so they came to America to escape that one place rule.

[Pyro6]

Frivolous lawsuits, greedy Pharma, too many moochers that can but don't pay a dime is the expense side. People that used to pay (and lost) a reasonable premium and now can't afford the new cost is the income for the program. The plan was designed for everyone to pay their fair share, a plan doomed to fail from the beginning.

[reality]

A dedicated VAT would fix those issues.
  And for those who have work plans just add the health care plan costs to your pay.

[Steve Wood]

Jeremy, who has paid for your medical care?  If it was private insurance, do you believe that a socialized medical system would have gone to the same extent, or would it have gone further?

My own observations are that private insurance will try to get out of it's perceived obligations if unchallenged but national healthcare is even more hard to challenge and humanity is not one of its cornerstones.

Nick has already told us about the young guy who shocked everyone by receiving prompt treatment and people asked if he was an athlete.  He also admitted that older people did not receive priority due to their age.  This is the socialist mentality.  That's all fine until it's one of your close relatives, I suspect.

Obamacare seemed to be trending in that direction as well.  Of course, those that espouse such principles are excluded from the system because they are too important to be discriminated against.  This exclusion is one of the reason that the American government system is in such poor state these days.

The only way to improve the American healthcare system to get the government out of the health business and remove the exclusionary status from all government employees, elected, or not.  Believe it, or not, competition is good for the industry.  As it stands, you have to be very incompetent to not make money these days.  At the minimum, to be successful, one has to have a good administrative staff that is creative in its billing practices.  Medicare is often all about what they can charge the government rather than what is the best treatment.

Someone was complaining here in town recently about having their appendix removed and the bill for one night in the hospital, surgery, pills, etc. was well over 30k.  That was someone younger-not a medicare patient.  I suspect it would have been more if that were the case.

Individual doctors cannot often not bear the cost of maintaining individual practices due to the cost of insurance, etc. so they are forced into group associations where they learn to refer patients to as many doctors within the group as pay so all can benefit.  Many of those that I would consider "real" doctors have retired in the past few years because they cannot bear the cost of individual practice and they cannot bear the cost of the admin required to satisfy government paperwork requirements.

A number of years ago, we had had a great influx of doctors from Britain to this country and Canada fleeing National Healthcare.  More recently, we have seen great doctors such as Dr. Franco Demonte who is one of the top neurosurgeons at MD Anderson in Houston come south.

Socialism seems to favor the lessor and discourage the great.  We tend to encourage the average and discourage the above in these systems.  Strange how the rich and powerful are exempt from the rules, tho'.  Plato laid out the framework in The Republic and Marx, et al,  and Liberals have been trying to sell it to us for years.  Of course, they do not perceive that they might, one day, be subject to it.