Turbo Tech

[Steve Wood]

That is really our problem.  Most engine programs are aimed at high end engines whereas many of us are looking at the other end of the spectrum.

The more I look at the new gen turbos, the more potential I see for low rpm, long-lived street engine's that will work.  yeah, I know a billion cycles on a cast crank can cause failure pulling out of your driveway.  It's no questioning that the series of turbos that included the 6262 series really stepped the game up and guys are going a lot faster as a result.  I suspect some of these new units are going to make them look obsolete.

Now, all we have to do is to drag Brad into the 21st century turbo-wise so he can kick rich kid azz even worse. 

[Steve Wood]

Don't get me wrong, Steve... a small amount of valve overlap 2-6* (typical in a mild NA performance cam) can work wonderfully in turbo engine, especially those 500-650hp range street combos.  High overlap is no bueno.  Yet, there is a point were we transition to race car mode and a spec cam is required.

I specifically chose the LS9 cam in our Procharged LS2 because its had more negative overlap than the stock cam, and caused an effective drop in dynamic compression. Handy when you are force feeding an 11:1 engine.  Conversely an 8:1 V6 needs more help off boost, so positive overlap is beneficial.

https://www.lingenfelter.com/PDFdownloads/12638427.pdf



Earl: Back pressure. Back pressure. Back pressure. :p

New engines have changed the game along with really sophisticated engine management.  2018 Mustang 2.3 rated out the door at 325 hp.  The guys with eco-boost ford trucks love them around here.  Some of these new engines are running 20 psi out the factory door.

When GM came out with the LS series, all bets were off.  Chrysler has gone nuts...and the most impressive thing to me is that this stuff has a warranty...smh

We do pretty good to be 32 years into the game and still getting better.

[nocooler]

KOENIGSEGG Has it figured out. Camless, and a whole slew of other cool shit.

[BoostedRPS]

KOENIGSEGG Has it figured out. Camless, and a whole slew of other cool shit.

My billet crank (and all the custom billet cranks that I sell) is made at the same facility and by the same people that make Koenigsegg's crankshafts


/brag

[nocooler]

My Chinese turbo is made in the factory next to the big guys /just saying

 

[motorhead]

When GM came out with the LS series, all bets were off.  Chrysler has gone nuts...and the most impressive thing to me is that this stuff has a warranty...smh

We do pretty good to be 32 years into the game and still getting better.

I believe the LS, HEMI, and latest Mod Motors are the result of a generation of dinosaur engineers and bean-counters dying off; and the infusion of a more progressive and youthful mindset taking over with clean sheet designs; that and transmissions being able to hold the power.
These little engines are a lot like the space shuttle - introduced in 1976 and improved with time.  Shit, just look at the 3800 series I, II, & III - and the new DOHC twin turbo V6s.

[earlbrown]

I have always been surprised by how well the stock camshaft worked under no boost conditions.  Engine is pretty peppy in NA form.  Be interesting to see the turbocam profile vs the na cam profile.

The engineers came up with a pretty good combo right out of the factory for 1986.

I've always wanted to put a degree wheel on a bone stock engine. I'd like to actually measure real world actual degrees of overlap.    I'd also like to know the relationship between intake opening and cam sensor timing.

I'd be kinda neat to make a formula that indicates where the cam sensor should be set based on exact valve events.  (or in this case 'event')

[earlbrown]

I disagree with Earl's comments about a turbo engine won't run well with a NA cam.  Many of the cams we have used to get better performance are NA profiles.  The Edelbrock 204/214 was very popular early on. Then we had/have the 206/206, 208/208, and the ever popular 212/212.  All of these are NA profiles but they work.  The really early cams like the 218/218 and such also made power but gave up the bottom end and have mostly gone away with the advent of better turbos.

Earl said that because what is commonly referred to as a 'turbo cam' is one with very little overlap, where as a 'n/a' cam is one that has the correct amount of overlap. Not to mention a 'turbo engine' is normally built with much less that optimum usage of intended octane.


A hotrod N/A cam with a shitload of overlap degrees will be a dog in a turbocharged application, and a cam with hardly no overlap in N/A would have a  bitch of a time filling the cylinder buy using atmospheric pressure (after all the pressure drops) alone.


Vizard ran tests on N/A years ago and he claims that the downstroke generated around 1PSI of 'draw' (that I interpreted as roughly 2"hg).  While the overlap period generated 8PSI.   Even with variables, anything remotely close to an 800X increase is one hellova thing to not mess up.   Plus overlap is first.  Once the air is moving, it's a lot easier to keep it moving.


Camshaft is the brain of the engine.   Messing up on that one would be like trying to speed up an iPhone that's running BASIC as an OS. 

[Scoobum]

Brad, you used too big a turbo for the combination and it did not have a chance to come into the zone where it was designed for.  It was lazy.

I knew what was gonna happen before I bolted it on. Norbs went 10.3 with it...but he needed 34 PSI to reach it. It simply needed lots of boost to hit its sweet spot. I also tested the 6152 with the .63 Precision exhaust housing. It needed 25 psi with the same tune to get me into the 11's.


Norbs went nuts when I said I was bolting the 6262 on. He said going smaller would slow my car down.

[Scoobum]

That is really our problem.  Most engine programs are aimed at high end engines whereas many of us are looking at the other end of the spectrum.

The more I look at the new gen turbos, the more potential I see for low rpm, long-lived street engine's that will work.  yeah, I know a billion cycles on a cast crank can cause failure pulling out of your driveway.  It's no questioning that the series of turbos that included the 6262 series really stepped the game up and guys are going a lot faster as a result.  I suspect some of these new units are going to make them look obsolete.

Now, all we have to do is to drag Brad into the 21st century turbo-wise so he can kick rich kid azz even worse. 

I have an end game for this car...and I'm not done yet. The plan is to have Tylers plug-n-play return line on the car and 340 pump in it before I put it away for the winter. I'll need it for more HP next spring...

[Steve Wood]

Earl said that because what is commonly referred to as a 'turbo cam' is one with very little overlap, where as a 'n/a' cam is one that has the correct amount of overlap. Not to mention a 'turbo engine' is normally built with much less that optimum usage of intended octane.

OMG, Earl is now talking in the third person just like Brad!  If one of them starts referring to themselves as The" Earl or Scoob, it's going to be time for some chemtrails and population control!

[ULYCYC]

Something to think about.  Years ago Jim Dotson was running 8.0's with his twin turbo stage 2.  Health issues  caused loss of his comp license. He removed the turbos and install a new intake and carb.  The car ran  constant 10.00's and won many bracket, Q8 and Q16 races. He was unbeatable until he passed away.  Best of my knowledge he never opened the motor and used the turbo setup internals with the carb. Go figure.

[Forzfed]

My buddy's Stage II with the turbo bypassed ran 10.9 to 11.1.  I thought that was pretty good!

[BoostedRPS]

Something to think about.  Years ago Jim Dotson was running 8.0's with his twin turbo stage 2.  Health issues  caused loss of his comp license. He removed the turbos and install a new intake and carb.  The car ran  constant 10.00's and won many bracket, Q8 and Q16 races. He was unbeatable until he passed away.  Best of my knowledge he never opened the motor and used the turbo setup internals with the carb. Go figure.

Engines with Stage 2 cylinder heads are completely different beasts than a production-headed block. Well ported Stage 2 heads can flow over 330cfm+ around .650 lift...that is LSx flow numbers...

Imagine a 4.5L LSx engine that was N/A and built to make serious power... would it be so hard to believe that something like that could produce 700..800..even 900hp if it was a purpose- built engine?

Using something like an old Indy engine's intake manifold, with the long runners and velocity stacks, I would have zero problems believing a N/A Stage 2 engine could make 700+hp routinely.

Earl said that because what is commonly referred to as a 'turbo cam' is one with very little overlap, where as a 'n/a' cam is one that has the correct amount of overlap. Not to mention a 'turbo engine' is normally built with much less that optimum usage of intended octane.

OMG, Earl is now talking in the third person just like Brad!  If one of them starts referring to themselves as The" Earl or Scoob, it's going to be time for some chemtrails and population control!

Bob Dole wouldn't find that very funny! Bob Dole would think that is rude. Bob Dole doesn't like things like that. BOB DOLE!!!

Eh..who am I kiddin'...one of my nicknames in college was "T-Unit" and if I was drunk enough, I'd start talking mad shit and refer to myself as "T-unit" saying it...

Uuuhhh man-o-man...college was a seriously crazy time... I totally get while people say college will be the greatest years of your life, because there is no other time you're able to have complete fucking insanity in your everyday life, and all the people you are surrounded by are experiencing the same thing, with no one there to put a halt to it....

....except the cops.... going to County Jail in nothing but your boxers (which didn't close in the front) on the night they're doing a prison transfer...wel l I would imagine that would probably suck..from what I hear online...

That is really our problem.  Most engine programs are aimed at high end engines whereas many of us are looking at the other end of the spectrum.

The more I look at the new gen turbos, the more potential I see for low rpm, long-lived street engine's that will work.  yeah, I know a billion cycles on a cast crank can cause failure pulling out of your driveway.  It's no questioning that the series of turbos that included the 6262 series really stepped the game up and guys are going a lot faster as a result.  I suspect some of these new units are going to make them look obsolete.

Now, all we have to do is to drag Brad into the 21st century turbo-wise so he can kick rich kid azz even worse. 

I have an end game for this car...and I'm not done yet. The plan is to have Tylers plug-n-play return line on the car and 340 pump in it before I put it away for the winter. I'll need it for more HP next spring...

I'm waiting on the lines to arrive, and once they do I'll figure out how we're going to approach shipping this stuff.

Hopefully we can have my PnP return line, AND the first ever (that I have heard about) PnP aftermarket E85-compatible fuel filter that works with the stock fuel lines...If we get this to work, then we'll be able to offer E85 Conversion kits for almost $200 LESS than what Racetronix / FT sell the kits for, and you'd still be able to run into the 10's!! Hopefully it will allow a lot of people to save some money and put the money saved to parts that they couldn't have afforded otherwise!

[Scoobum]

True or false. I can run a slightly tighter convertor than spec'd by the turbo manufacturer with a larger turbo if I use a boost controller like an RJC unit.

If true...why?