Turbo Tech

[Forzfed]

I will bet you $20 right now that it doesn't spool by 3,200rpm.


Er well... what is your setup again?


I don't bet..basically ever... but I believe in these turbos so much that I'd bet you $100 off the price of a turbo, or $50 in your hands, that the G4S 6765 would spool faster than the 6468 turbo.

I'm taking it easy right now trying to get some miles on it till I boost it.  I have a 4.3 liter with cnc ported heads running 9.1:1 compression.  With the .85 exhaust it will definitely be a little more laggy than the CPT-66 it replaced.

[earlbrown]

16 year old aluminum rods...I guess, according to lore, he gained half and inch of stroke over that period?

Pretty sure all 8 of them are broken and nobody bothers to notice the engine still runs.

[earlbrown]

Everything with the cam has to do with the timing of the intake valve closing.

There's just a little bit more to it than that.

[motorhead]

As far as "playing the game" I am not quite sure what you mean, but I can tell you that as a new vendor all you get is shittalking and people trying to fuck your connects up...Ive had people try to contact WORK and squeeze me out, and people literally LIE to companies to cause me to lose the ability to sell their products...

I don't know "playing the game" would be, but I don't think I'm doing it right, haha! I just be myself, and if people like that, cool. If not, cool. I genuinely believe that if someone was looking for a product and gave me a chance, they would see why everyone who has bought stuff off me has awesome stuff to say about their experience.

Between being the new company on the block, AND being younger than 95% of TR owners, it makes it difficult to earn people's business who have never heard of you.

That won't stop me, though. I'll let this new engine and setup show everyone what I am capable of

That is pretty much it.  The bag licking protectionism that happens on both sides of vending (TB.com, LS1tech.com, etc).  Those selling things, and those blindly defending those things they bought from those selling things.  This occurs because no one wants to be exposed as an underachiever or the follower of an underachiever.   The constant need to have vendors pander to the bottom line of a forum - acknowledging there is a lot of overhead in running a website - is absurd.  Vendor-bias undermines the community and the hobby at large, and risks making victims of its membership.
All that said:  Go get 'em, and report back!

[BoostedRPS]

Everything with the cam has to do with the timing of the intake valve closing.

There's just a little bit more to it than that.

You mean like, if it is 1/2 or 3/4 Race?

[earlbrown]

It's like 5/8th race doens't even exist.

[BoostedRPS]

It's like 5/8th race doens't even exist.

You know, if it was at least 1/16th it could qualify to live on a reservation and start your own casino

[good2win22]

When you guys talk about ''over turbo'' and ''all in'' what exactly do you mean? Sounds like a catch phrase to me. Yes I know you don't put a 105mm on a stock blockLet's use a 11.00 3800 lb Regal for ex. What is over turbo and under turbo? and why do you want to be ''all in''.

When you are over turbo'd, you have a turbo on the engine that is to big for the engine.  The engine has a tuff time getting the turbo to spool, the turbo can move more air than the engine can physically move thru it.


When you're all in, you will see increase in boost at low rpm's but once the engine rpm gets up there in the rpm range,  the efficiency of the engine being an air pump takes over and you will see a decrease in boost pressure.  Boost is a measure of restriction. Something called the bernulli principle takes over, when velocity increases, pressure decreases.

[daveismissing]

It's like 5/8th race doens't even exist.

You know, if it was at least 1/16th it could qualify to live on a reservation and start your own casino

Ya gota watch that Earl, He's a Hatfield, or was that McCoy?, or something else,... Well definitely something else... 

[earlbrown]

Hatfield.  Devil Anse is my great great grandfather.



Oddly enough, I don't remember mentioning that in the Buick community.

[BoostedRPS]

When you guys talk about ''over turbo'' and ''all in'' what exactly do you mean? Sounds like a catch phrase to me. Yes I know you don't put a 105mm on a stock blockLet's use a 11.00 3800 lb Regal for ex. What is over turbo and under turbo? and why do you want to be ''all in''.

When we "over turbo" a car, we place the turbocharger above the engine. If the turbo is on top, then it spools faster because physics says that an apple fell on Newton's head, and so turbos spool faster that way. I completely full of shit right now and am being 100% serious, I have an incredibly dry sense of humor, similar to Andy Kaufman, and I can picture you reading my response and being like "wtf is this guy talking about" while you read it. Sorry, I don't mean to be rude, I'm just an asshole with a sense of humor..


Real response- Over turbo'ing a car means that we put a turbo that is far too large for good response and good spool up, on the engine, so it is very laggy. Think of Supra engines that have zero power until like 6,000rpm...those engines are over-turbo'd, in my opinion.


When you run a turbo "All-in" that means you are running the turbo at the maximum amount the wheels can flow before they start to become inefficient. This ties in a bit with a compressor map. A comp map gives you a "map" (not like Magellan's) that plots how much air the compressor wheel can move and at what pressures. As the turbo spins faster and faster, it becomes less and less efficient. The map plots how much air the wheel can move at different speeds, pressures, and airflow volume. As the wheel spins faster and faster, it becomes less and less efficient. There is a sorta "unwritten rule" that you shouldn't run a turbo past 60%-65% efficiency, meaning less than that.


Cliffnotes:
Over turbo means to put too large of a turbo on a car.
All-in means to run the turbo at the maximum amount of air it can flow.

[reality]

Cliffnotes:Over turbo means to put too large of a turbo on a car.All-in means to run the turbo at the maximum amount of air it can flow.

ON the first point I guess the question is why do you need a 44, 50,51..52.53 54  60 61 2345678 70 72 74 turbo and is a 44 too small and a 74 too big for a 11.00 .3800 lb car? Why is 1 better than the other.if they both do the job at hand.

And on the second point why would you want to do that on a street car. I understand if the rules say for ex 70. that you try to max it out

[BoostedRPS]

Cliffnotes:Over turbo means to put too large of a turbo on a car.All-in means to run the turbo at the maximum amount of air it can flow.

ON the first point I guess the question is why do you need a 44, 50,51..52.53 54  60 61 2345678 70 72 74 turbo and is a 44 too small and a 74 too big for a 11.00 .3800 lb car? Why is 1 better than the other.if they both do the job at hand.

And on the second point why would you want to do that on a street car. I understand if the rules say for ex 70. that you try to max it out

Oh boy, those questions I could write really long answers for...


Ok so your first question- You don't really need a turbo of any size, it is entirely what people want and THAT is where the problem lies.


People's Ego's and the desire to "have the best" or "showoff" plays a BIG role in the answer to this question. People like to find ways to assert their superiority over others in the social hierarchy of our world. Meaning that people like to find ways to make themselves appear as if they are more important, or even "better" than others. One of these ways, as silly as it sounds, is by using parts that are larger/bigger/newer than other people, even if they may not necessarily gain anything from it, and even if the setup may not be ideal for the performance they are looking for. You can pick these people out pretty easily on the forums- they typically are the people that list every single modification that they have done to the car, and have long signatures that detail all the parts they have put on, as a form of passive-boasting/bragging/social-assertion.


Add to that notion, people are afraid to run their cars at high boost levels, IE- 30psi or more. They fear, and for good reason, that doing so may blow their engines up or cause a catastrophic failure...and for most people that may be true if they do not have their tunes down or do not know what they are doing. Since they will not run the higher boost numbers required to get the max flow out of smaller turbos, they then turn to a larger turbo that will move more air at boost pressures they feel safe with. This is why you see people running 67mm turbos and running low 10s/high 9s, when you could easily run a new 64mm turbo and go mid-9's if you weren't afraid of boost....they want to run the turbo where they feel "safe" but still want that extra amount of airflow, hence putting a larger turbo on their car.


As for what turbo is best for your car? The best turbo is one you are happy with If you mean the ideal turbo to maximize your setup? Well then I would need a list of modifications done to your car to help answer that.


A TE44 turbo for a car running 11.00 in a 3,800lb car is probably at it's limit of what it can do. I would consider moving up to a larger turbo by either 1) Having it rebuilt into a larger unit, or 2) Purchasing a new larger unit and selling yours.

Yes, a 74mm turbo is too large if your setup is currently using a TE44...this is my assumption without knowing your complete setup, of course.


And as for why you would want to do that to a street car? Well...you'd have to ask the people that did it. I can't speak for them.

[Scoobum]

The other reason for not turning the wick up...is that most are afraid of acceleration and G forces. Norbs tuned 3 of the locals cars with XFI. Each file...showed the TPS come down on launch. The G force at launch scared them.

Most don't need anything bigger than a 6262....but will go bigger and throw every cool guy part at it to show off at the local Timmies.

[daveismissing]

Good stuff-
 (I think we found Motorhead Mike's lost_at_birth twin)
The damage equation is be interesting, which configuration is actually less destructive?
Then we have the Micale style 7000+ RPM motor with more kinetic energy I assume...