Zap *STILL* wears Depends
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I suspect the cam is minor compared to the turbos and heads in the rpm bands that we typically run.
Got bored and ran a few common Comp Buick turbo V6 grinds through the Cam Motion calculator. Overlap varies from -3* to -21*, that is a pretty substantial range; and can create issues when not appropriate for the application. Jason's cam came in at -15*, IIRC.A discussion on negative overlap cams:http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6989http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33508http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52712
The only thing that I am surprised by is the fact that the thread has not been deleted yet
https://turbobuick.com/threads/nick-micale-arizonagn.458899/Not the first unhappy customer, probably wont be the last. I hate to bash a long time guy that provides "some" tech but if you aren't taking care of your customers, someone else will.
I'm all for new cam technology...b ut the bottom line is this. Most won't turn the boost past 20 PSI...so a cam and high end valve train will give minimal bang for the buck. A good NL convertor will give a far better return on investment for ET/MPH.
Quote from: Scoobum on July 07 2018, 08:16:27 PM[/size]I'm all for new cam technology...b ut the bottom line is this. Most won't turn the boost past 20 PSI...so a cam and high end valve train will give minimal bang for the buck. A good NL convertor will give a far better return on investment for ET/MPH.I agree with the notion that most people will not maximize the turbo they have. I would also go so far as to state that a majority of TR owners have over-turbo'd setups.A good converter can definitely go a long way to help with a turbo's performance.I was speaking with Reed last night about his G4 6765 dual ball bearing units, and I seriously could not believe the performance numbers he was giving me. Also, shameless plug- he said that next week he is going to be giving me special Promo pricing for the G4S 6765 DBB units for next week only, so stay tuned I was asking him about what the center cartridges are in his G4's, and I will admit that I was wrong when I previously said it was not like a Garrett center section. WORK's G4 ball bearing center sections use Garrett bearings and Garrett bearing housings, because "They are the best I can find, so that's what I'm gonna use!" This was really reassuring to hear, especially after watching that video from Turbo Lab stating that the Garrett ball bearing cartridges spool 500rpm faster than the Precision ball bearing cartridges.When I asked him what kinda stall his 6765 DBB would need, using an example engine setup of; stock displacement and compression ratio, ported iron heads, aftermarket camshaft with 208+ duration, E85 as fuel, and a PTC 9.5" converter.... he told me that his turbos would need a stall speed of 3,000-3,100rpm and that the turbo would be fully spooled shortly after, but he did add that if the car was a chipped car it would need more fine tuning to reach that 3,100rpm-ish full spool compared to if the car had an aftermarket ECM in it in which case it would spool by 3,100-ish easily....keep in mind this turbo has made over 960rwhp on a Stage 1 block with GN1R heads...and they still had 6-8psi left in the turbo (they ran out of injector so they had to quit there).He was saying that on his stock block 109 with ported irons and a chip, with a car that weighs 3,807lbs, at 12psi on this turbo he ran 10.98 while footbraking the car and launching at 7-8psi..I don't know about you guys, but those numbers blew my fucking mind...that completely shits over anything I've ever heard of for a stock displacement/stock CR/ported irons setup spooling a bigass turbo that can produce 4-figure horsepower numbers..I cannot wait to see people use these new turbos and compare them to their PTE's...I honestly think we may have a "changing of the guard" so to speak, regarding what turbos produce the most power for our cars...
[/size]I'm all for new cam technology...b ut the bottom line is this. Most won't turn the boost past 20 PSI...so a cam and high end valve train will give minimal bang for the buck. A good NL convertor will give a far better return on investment for ET/MPH.
Quote from: BoostedRPS on July 08 2018, 09:25:50 AMQuote from: Scoobum on July 07 2018, 08:16:27 PMI'm all for new cam technology...b ut the bottom line is this. Most won't turn the boost past 20 PSI...so a cam and high end valve train will give minimal bang for the buck. A good NL convertor will give a far better return on investment for ET/MPH.I agree with the notion that most people will not maximize the turbo they have. I would also go so far as to state that a majority of TR owners have over-turbo'd setups.A good converter can definitely go a long way to help with a turbo's performance.I was speaking with Reed last night about his G4 6765 dual ball bearing units, and I seriously could not believe the performance numbers he was giving me. Also, shameless plug- he said that next week he is going to be giving me special Promo pricing for the G4S 6765 DBB units for next week only, so stay tuned I was asking him about what the center cartridges are in his G4's, and I will admit that I was wrong when I previously said it was not like a Garrett center section. WORK's G4 ball bearing center sections use Garrett bearings and Garrett bearing housings, because "They are the best I can find, so that's what I'm gonna use!" This was really reassuring to hear, especially after watching that video from Turbo Lab stating that the Garrett ball bearing cartridges spool 500rpm faster than the Precision ball bearing cartridges.When I asked him what kinda stall his 6765 DBB would need, using an example engine setup of; stock displacement and compression ratio, ported iron heads, aftermarket camshaft with 208+ duration, E85 as fuel, and a PTC 9.5" converter.... he told me that his turbos would need a stall speed of 3,000-3,100rpm and that the turbo would be fully spooled shortly after, but he did add that if the car was a chipped car it would need more fine tuning to reach that 3,100rpm-ish full spool compared to if the car had an aftermarket ECM in it in which case it would spool by 3,100-ish easily....keep in mind this turbo has made over 960rwhp on a Stage 1 block with GN1R heads...and they still had 6-8psi left in the turbo (they ran out of injector so they had to quit there).He was saying that on his stock block 109 with ported irons and a chip, with a car that weighs 3,807lbs, at 12psi on this turbo he ran 10.98 while footbraking the car and launching at 7-8psi..I don't know about you guys, but those numbers blew my fucking mind...that completely shits over anything I've ever heard of for a stock displacement/stock CR/ported irons setup spooling a bigass turbo that can produce 4-figure horsepower numbers..I cannot wait to see people use these new turbos and compare them to their PTE's...I honestly think we may have a "changing of the guard" so to speak, regarding what turbos produce the most power for our cars...when you say spool 500 rpm faster....you mean it takes 500 rpm less stall to spool the turbo-correct?
Quote from: Scoobum on July 07 2018, 08:16:27 PMI'm all for new cam technology...b ut the bottom line is this. Most won't turn the boost past 20 PSI...so a cam and high end valve train will give minimal bang for the buck. A good NL convertor will give a far better return on investment for ET/MPH.I agree with the notion that most people will not maximize the turbo they have. I would also go so far as to state that a majority of TR owners have over-turbo'd setups.A good converter can definitely go a long way to help with a turbo's performance.I was speaking with Reed last night about his G4 6765 dual ball bearing units, and I seriously could not believe the performance numbers he was giving me. Also, shameless plug- he said that next week he is going to be giving me special Promo pricing for the G4S 6765 DBB units for next week only, so stay tuned I was asking him about what the center cartridges are in his G4's, and I will admit that I was wrong when I previously said it was not like a Garrett center section. WORK's G4 ball bearing center sections use Garrett bearings and Garrett bearing housings, because "They are the best I can find, so that's what I'm gonna use!" This was really reassuring to hear, especially after watching that video from Turbo Lab stating that the Garrett ball bearing cartridges spool 500rpm faster than the Precision ball bearing cartridges.When I asked him what kinda stall his 6765 DBB would need, using an example engine setup of; stock displacement and compression ratio, ported iron heads, aftermarket camshaft with 208+ duration, E85 as fuel, and a PTC 9.5" converter.... he told me that his turbos would need a stall speed of 3,000-3,100rpm and that the turbo would be fully spooled shortly after, but he did add that if the car was a chipped car it would need more fine tuning to reach that 3,100rpm-ish full spool compared to if the car had an aftermarket ECM in it in which case it would spool by 3,100-ish easily....keep in mind this turbo has made over 960rwhp on a Stage 1 block with GN1R heads...and they still had 6-8psi left in the turbo (they ran out of injector so they had to quit there).He was saying that on his stock block 109 with ported irons and a chip, with a car that weighs 3,807lbs, at 12psi on this turbo he ran 10.98 while footbraking the car and launching at 7-8psi..I don't know about you guys, but those numbers blew my fucking mind...that completely shits over anything I've ever heard of for a stock displacement/stock CR/ported irons setup spooling a bigass turbo that can produce 4-figure horsepower numbers..I cannot wait to see people use these new turbos and compare them to their PTE's...I honestly think we may have a "changing of the guard" so to speak, regarding what turbos produce the most power for our cars...
Tyler...if you can...post pics and vids of your build. I know you started it on the other board. Maybe give the guys a quick over view of what you have, and have done up to this point...and then keep us updated as you go along.
He was saying that on his stock block 109 with ported irons and a chip, with a car that weighs 3,807lbs, at 12psi on this turbo he ran 10.98 while footbraking the car and launching at 7-8psi..I cannot wait to see people use these new turbos and compare them to their PTE's...I honestly think we may have a "changing of the guard" so to speak, regarding what turbos produce the most power for our cars...
Quote from: BoostedRPS on July 08 2018, 10:43:40 AMHe was saying that on his stock block 109 with ported irons and a chip, with a car that weighs 3,807lbs, at 12psi on this turbo he ran 10.98 while footbraking the car and launching at 7-8psi..I cannot wait to see people use these new turbos and compare them to their PTE's...I honestly think we may have a "changing of the guard" so to speak, regarding what turbos produce the most power for our cars...That does sound amazing! I will have to see how my 6468 performs and if I don't like it I think I might have to upgrade.
Well if you aren't a member at Speedtalk, you should be. As for boost numbers... forget that noise - that is for BSing at Cars and Coffee. The only thing I want to hear about is air flow into the engine - g/cyl, lb/min, g/sec, etc. Even my TBSS running SD has an accurate MAF on it to show actual air flow.Cam, heads, turbo are all part of the equation and must be matched; and while the old Buick recipes work - the lack of innovation or adoption of new technologies is extremely frustrating. Especially when the old guard cock-blocks change.Credit where credit is due - those who bring new product to market and "play the game" are to be commended - even if that isn't how things should work.The number of "204/214 cam" threads at TB.com is hillarious - every asshat singing off the same sheet of music because of the vocal minority won't change their tune.
