confused!

[blown1]

OK.......... I'll admit  I F'd up ........

I believe I found the issue.
tore the heads apart  and found smashed seals,  didn't have that issue before adding 1.65 rockers,
and marks on the exh guides (which I did NOT cut down)
puzzling?  well it seems when I was  doing set up, I used  the stock Buick retainers, and everything  looked good,
when I assembled I used new fancy retainers, and...... there almost .100  lower,
so spring pressures were  thru the roof,  or in my case , thru the rockers.
and  add in 1.55,   to 1.65 ratio rockers, and everything  is screwed!


that explains why the  rocker bolts were breaking (beside cheap bolts)
the exh retainers were hitting the top of the guide, snapping off  bolts, rocker shafts,  making
spears out of  pushrods!

so after cleaning up will start over , and CHECK EVERYTHING!!!!!!

thanks for all the suggestions,  it did help, in that I am now  believer  in check twice, or 3 or4  times, and
assemble once!

[Be4u]

making spears out of  pushrods!

lol, my imagination kicked in bigtime.

Glad you figured it out. Now you got a cool story to tell, I was all over this waiting for the verdict. 

I was like "daaamn, he's bustin' heads off the bolts?!?! WTF?" Everyone else was non-shalont, I was trippin'!
lol too funny.

[good2win22]

Good to hear you are making progress and didn't give up.

[motorhead]

Any potential internal lifter damage from collapsing them?

[blown1]

not  sure on lifter damage, haven't torn em down yet,

Robert... I'm sure your not the only  one kicked back, watching  the stupidity unfold.

I have no idea why I didn't cut  the exh  guides  when I did the intake guides.

there was no rush , or time frame  for me to get this done, so I do not have any excuse for
not  doing it  correctly, I could  say it was old age, making me forgetful,  (I'm 68)
but for some reason , it didn't occur to me to do them both, DUH.
oh well, live an learn,

[Just a Six?]

There was a local Buick shop that did my engine many years back & he used the wrong size keepers so as soon as I gave it any boost (or high revs) a push rod would bend like a banana. I know it happened 10+ times as I had to pick up some spares from another shop. It always happened on the driver side & usually one of the same two of them always bent 1st. As soon as they did the boost gauge would go Nuts. I could swap one out in 5 mins after the 6-7th time sitting on the side of the road. Finally he agreed something was off & called after a few hours with the story. Crazy stuff happens for no good reason so glad your problem is solved!

[blown1]

cut all the guides down  to .675 tall,  i used a .500  OD cutter , also have a .530 OD cutter (two most common for  seals)
measured   the different  retainers,  installed  on my heads  stock retainers are 1.730
the  steel after market retainers  installed a 1.675.

measured  the  ID, and seal OD,  seat  dia,
coil bind,  seat pressures,  open pressures,
with and with out shims,  and....... travel available between ret and top of guide,

whew,  anyone think of anything else to measure?

next......... push rod  length,

[good2win22]

Just curious what your measurements are and the cam lobe you are going to use this time.


Installed height
Coil bind
Cam lobe
Rocker ratio
Locater to top of seal distance
Seat pressure
Pressure over the nose

[motorhead]

Getting the pushrod length spot on is key.  I'd add installed valvestem height to the mix as well, especially if the seats were modified or the valves have a funky length.

[blown1]

well, right now I'm leaning toward a hyd  flat tappet cam,
the roller rockers  are such a pain in the butt,   (valve cover actually)
so with that in mind.
installed ...1.730
coil bind....1.121
lobe lift......in-.280/ex-.295
rocker ratio...1.55
seal to guide.......76 4 (actually guide to retainer) seal is approx .060 thick)
seat

[blown1]

 well, right now I'm leaning toward a hyd  flat tappet cam,
the roller rockers  are such a pain in the butt,   (valve cover actually)
so with that in mind.
installed ...1.730
coil bind....1.121
lobe lift......in-.280/ex-.295
rocker ratio...1.55
seal to guide.......76 4 (actually guide to retainer) seal is approx .060 thick)
seat  85lbs@1.730" class="bbc_email">pressure...... 85lbs@1.730
open/ nose  pressure... didn't measure,  advertised is 250lbs@.500

lobe lift is advertised at- int-.280 and exh .295, cam card reads  valve lift int .448, exh .472,
when you do the math.... it is not the same ?  int -.280x1.55=.434,  exh -.295x1.55=.457.

valves are  ferrea stainless steel, standard length, under cut,  1.77 int, and 1.51 exh
not sure of the weight,   but will know in a bit, (I'll weigh them)

[blown1]

sorry for the double post,
suddenly part of the post  dissapeared?

[blown1]

using my wife's postal scale (it s all I have)
SS int  valve......3.5 oz
SS exh .............3 .4oz

stock int........... 3.7oz
stock exh.........3. 5oz

new stock in.....3.7

stock retainer ....  .7
aftermarket ret..   .7

[good2win22]

well, right now I'm leaning toward a hyd  flat tappet cam,
the roller rockers  are such a pain in the butt,   (valve cover actually)
so with that in mind.
installed ...1.730
coil bind....1.121
lobe lift......in-.280/ex-.295
rocker ratio...1.55
seal to guide.......76 4 (actually guide to retainer) seal is approx .060 thick)
seat  85lbs@1.730" class="bbc_email">pressure...... 85lbs@1.730
open/ nose  pressure... didn't measure,  advertised is 250lbs@.500

lobe lift is advertised at- int-.280 and exh .295, cam card reads  valve lift int .448, exh .472,
when you do the math.... it is not the same ?  int -.280x1.55=.434,  exh -.295x1.55=.457.

valves are  ferrea stainless steel, standard length, under cut,  1.77 int, and 1.51 exh
not sure of the weight,   but will know in a bit, (I'll weigh them)

I did a run thru with your numbers and my calculations show it shouldn't be a problem hitting the guide this time even if it has .472 on the exh.  There is still .137 left until coil bind on the spring, so that is good too.


About the only thing I would suggest is an increase on the seat pressure.  Not sure what springs you have but I bet a few folks on here will agree with me, what you have is a little too light on the seat.

[blown1]

stock spring rate is 80lbs @ 1.72
what would anyone recommend?
 and what about  open, or @ .472 ?

the springs I have are  new/ stock springs.