confused!

[blown1]

so I built and installed new engine in my 87 T,,   basic 3.8, 30 over, forged pistons,  oil pump blue print, TA  grooved cam bearings, comp 206 roller, T/A lifters, and pushrods,  pac springs (same specs as comp cams spec'd)  shim head gaskets,
( GM orig ) ARP head bolts,
and......... started with stock rockers,, broke a shaft, up graded to HD rocker shafts, put a push rod thru a rocker.
alot of valve train noise!
installed T&D roller rockers, WOW is this thing noisy!, 
I thought  possibly  coil bind,  retainer bottoming out,  valve hitting piston, so off came the heads, and  installed  lighter springs.
and checked every thing, no valve contact, no coil bind, no retainer hitting, .
so I installed them, and same noise.
I adjusted  the valves again, 
is it possible  the lifters collapsed?  or  not pumped up? as I found I could  push  the rocker down by hand, (on some)
top end is getting plenty of oil,
I'm ready to walk away  for a while,

[TexasT]

What did you use for lifters?
Did you disassemble them and clean em out, then soak em before install?
Good break in lube? Did it fire right up or did you have to crank it a lot?
Have you pulled the vc to make sure oil is getting up there?

[motorhead]

Did you try swapping in an LS1? I kid... I kid.

[good2win22]

TA sells standard travel Morel roller lifters branded with TA performance on the links. I have found as well as others that the pre load on those lifters needs to be about a 1 and 1/2 turns after getting the slack out between the rocker and the lifter. It will quiet down at idle.  Measuring the travel on the push rod when doing this, it's a little over .060 preload. Those standard travel Morel lifters have I think a little over .130 of oil resivior. What oil are you running and what is oil pressure?  Also where is the feed for the oil pressure sending unit located? In the brass T or back of the block?

[blown1]

T/A  -morel  lifters,   no didn't  dissassemble em, using 10-30  dino oil,  60psi cold, 25 warm,

top end is well lubed,  in that oil  is pumping thru all rockers.

TT chip, and car fired with in 3 revolutions,

SO.........  your telling me  T/A lifters require  alot of preload? I've been setting them at 1/2 turn
 after  rolling the push rod,and it gets tight.

oil sender is in  brass block , by oil pump.

talk about  frustrating!

[good2win22]

T/A  -morel  lifters,   no didn't  dissassemble em, using 10-30  dino oil,  60psi cold, 25 warm,

top end is well lubed,  in that oil  is pumping thru all rockers.

TT chip, and car fired with in 3 revolutions,

SO.........  your telling me  T/A lifters require  alot of preload? I've been setting them at 1/2 turn
 after  rolling the push rod,and it gets tight.

oil sender is in  brass block , by oil pump.

talk about  frustrating!

Yes. Everyone I've talked to this week and last has said the same thing about the TA/Morel lifters, 1 to 1 1/2 turns of preload. My engine was noisy too. Don't get carried away though. You can actually bottom out the lifter and start opening the valve with the adjuster. Oil is good. Just add a bit more preload and see what happens.

[earlbrown]

Before any lifter (tappet) is installed it needs to be put in a vise and squished. It's amazing the thick jizz that will shoot out on some of them and just how much force it takes to crack them loose.

Trying to tune around a stuck tappet can be nerve wrecking to those that don't realize just how gummy some of them can be.

[blown1]

1st, many thanks for the input!!!

well, sounds like I should of  cleaned  the new lifter PRIOR to  install,
oh well,  whats "another " intake gasket, LOL

odd part is, after running total time of maybe 30 min,  2 or 3  lifters still have not pumped up,
in that I can depress the rocker  with my finger, and feel the lifter  depress,

but... what is causing  the damage,  (push rods thru the rocker, and rocker shaft to break)

[Forzfed]

Also, make sure that the roller tip of the rocker is right on top of the valve stem.  I encountered a problem with binding on the rocker shafts.  I had to remove one shim.  And I have crappy lifters!

[blown1]

sad part  is, I was over board  in checking  proper alignment on the tip, adjusted the shaft spacers,
 used blue dykem , and checked for  spring to rocker  interference.
alot of good that did,

[earlbrown]

I really with the ''it's important to center the roller on the stem'' wivestale would go away.

Proper rocker arm geometry is NOWHERE near as easy as that.  I often wonder how many setups got made worse (or flat out wrong) by worrying about the sweep pattern.?


At the middle of the lift you want the rocker arms pivot points to be square with the valve stem.   Bigger lift means lower rocker mounting not higer.  that minimizes the width of the sweep pattern. Where it lands is purely trivial.


.....at that exact same time you want the pushrod to be square with the rocker but that's not exactly possible since Jim Miller holds a current patent on that 'technology' and he won't make Buick rockers. I've asked.  What I usually do is do that math on both sides then bisect the difference for the best happy medium.

[blown1]

well.      been in the garage all morning and part of afternoon,
checking everything,
AND..... adjusted the  valves.  but this time I backed them off until they had clearance,
 then added 1 & 1/2 turns!
when I started it up rattled until lifters  pumped up, then got  stupid quiet, (valve cover is OFF)
I started to laugh,
then did the other side,      kinda feel dumb., but  it would of been nice if T/A would of  mentioned this.
I called a buddy (no names)  who builds Buick motors, has a 8 sec  turbo buick, and generally  is upto date  on
 buicks.  he was very surprised, and added he usually builds solid roller cam motors.

SO. I guess I'll cancel the new flat tappet cam and lifters , LOL

now. if it'll  not breal anything , I'll be happy!

[good2win22]

Glad it worked for ya. I have been in valve train hell this last few weeks with mine.

[TexasT]

Nice, way to keep after it.

[blown1]

still puzzled  about all the breakage,   rocker shaft,  3 push rods thru  rocker arms.
 could being loose valve adj cause all that?

had to go out and start it again, just to listen to the LACK of noise!  LOL

now, if nothing breaks !!!!!!!!!