Welcome Darkryd

[darkryd]

MAF is on the way from TurboKeith (turbobuicks forum). Another MAF and ECM are also on the way. I will head to Wicked Garage with my laptop and powerlogger and tap  the MAF a bit.  See if we get any strange readings.  Will post once I get them.  Might be later today if I can get out of work early.  Otherwise early next week.

[Steve Wood]

Make sure it has at least one screen in it and that the maf is not necked down inside.    Also be sure to check those wires in the connector to make sure they are firmly attached to the pins as Larry mentioned

I'm still wondering why my PL showed the maf readings in the 20's instead of 4-6 at idle.

[Scoobum]

When I looked at Mikes PL files a couple of weeks ago, what stood out was the 'spikey' MAF readings. A lot of times I compare my own files to others to get an answer as to what's going on. My best guess is his MAF is crapping out.

[Steve Wood]

Do you see the same maf numbers as me?

[darkryd]

Good evening. I was able to get out of work early and do the "MAF Tap" test.  I also did a few more runs with PowerLogger.  http://turbobuick.com/threads/hesitation-stumble-at-various-throttle-positions.443100/page-2



You can see my updates on the other thread.  Not sure if you guys want me to be posting here or turbobuicks.co m.  Let me know.  I thought I'd continue the thread there but I can transition here.  Good either way.

[darkryd]

When I looked at Mikes PL files a couple of weeks ago, what stood out was the 'spikey' MAF readings. A lot of times I compare my own files to others to get an answer as to what's going on. My best guess is his MAF is crapping out.

"Spikey Mikey"... i'm sure i was called that as a kid growing up.  The MAF tap created spikes.  I uploaded the PL file to the turbobuick thread.

[darkryd]

Make sure it has at least one screen in it and that the maf is not necked down inside.    Also be sure to check those wires in the connector to make sure they are firmly attached to the pins as Larry mentioned

I'm still wondering why my PL showed the maf readings in the 20's instead of 4-6 at idle.

there will be two screens coming with this particular MAF.  Not sure what you mean by "necked down inside".  do you mean nicked? Like if the screen has nicks?  I need to figure out how to confirm fi the wires in the connector are firmly attached to the pins.  Thats still outstanding to confirm. 


The PL readings spike to the 20's but when its not spiking its around 7.  higher than 4-6 but as you mention on vortexbuicks, it could be idling at around 7 if the rpms are higher.  Thing is, i see rpms around 650-700 at idle.  not 800-850.


I posted updated PL files on the turbobuick thread.  The MAF tap (with screwdriver handle) created spikes.

[TexasT]

If this is an original maf you are wasting your time with it. There is a reason just about every turbo Buick you see that is driven has a translator and a newer style maf. The originals have lived their life cycle.

Added: After reading Steve input, I'm also willing to bet this maf doesn't make it to 255 @wot either. The translator is hard to swallow at $200 but you only have to buy it once. Worth it in aggravation. Then you use commonly available mafs you can get at a wrecking yard for a pittance. Or new or rebuilt ones for cheap compared unreliable stock ones.

[Steve Wood]

Make sure it has at least one screen in it and that the maf is not necked down inside.    Also be sure to check those wires in the connector to make sure they are firmly attached to the pins as Larry mentioned

I'm still wondering why my PL showed the maf readings in the 20's instead of 4-6 at idle.

there will be two screens coming with this particular MAF.  Not sure what you mean by "necked down inside".  do you mean nicked? Like if the screen has nicks?  I need to figure out how to confirm fi the wires in the connector are firmly attached to the pins.  Thats still outstanding to confirm. 


The PL readings spike to the 20's but when its not spiking its around 7.  higher than 4-6 but as you mention on vortexbuicks, it could be idling at around 7 if the rpms are higher.  Thing is, i see rpms around 650-700 at idle.  not 800-850.


I posted updated PL files on the turbobuick thread.  The MAF tap (with screwdriver handle) created spikes.

Okay, if the maf numbers spike when you tap on it, that is a sign of a bad maf.  That means that if you hit a bump in the road it will change the fueling drastically... but even a vibration of the maf will cause it to spike.  The tap test is the classic, simplest way to test a factory style maf on our cars.  In 99.9% of the cases, the maf is bad.   In the other 0.01% of the cases, it might be Larry's connector problem because these cars are 30 years old and the connectors are beginning to fail.

Now, to test a connector, hold the connector in one hand.  Then with the other hand, tug gently on each individual wire and see if it pulls back from the connector meaning that the pin is not crimped to the wire properly any more.  While you can find someone with a weather pak connector wire tool and install a new pin, or you can remove the existing pin and put a tiny drop of solder at the wire/pin interface for a repair, the best repair is to order a new connector/harness end from Casper's and replace the original.

Now, I am trying to figure out how you get 7 on the maf readings.  On the file that I went over and downloaded off that other site, it starts at 7.9 on the maf display but it changes to around 20 on read outs around sample #512 and stays in that range for the rest of the log other than the spikes.  The file I looked at is labeled Hesitated_Park ed.

Would someone else look at that file if you bothered to dl it and tell me if you see it increase to the 20 range from the high 7's?

Necked down means like a funnel is necked down from a large opening to a small opening.  That is probably Texican slang.  The correct maf is straight thru with no change in internal diameter.  I am not talking about the air smoothing cone in the front of the sensor which smooths air flow across the sensing board.  I am referring to a reduced internal diameter as compared to the outside diameter of the unit.    There were some maf sensors made for other cars that were built like this and they sometimes show up on the rebuilt market as sensors for our cars...and they are not.

Now, as Rich said above, don't waste your time trying to keep a factory style unit working in the future.  Get a Translator unit along with a TT chip and eliminate the maf problem from now on.  I guess there are cases of the modern style mafs failing but I have yet to see it.

30 years ago, I bought my GN and a week later I was in Columbia and my wife called and said the GN is blowing black smoke and running terribly.  She took it back to the dealer and, you guessed it, the maf was bad...one week old.  They have been failing regularly for 30 years now.

I hope the shop does not charge you anything.

[darkryd]

If this is an original maf you are wasting your time with it. There is a reason just about every turbo Buick you see that is driven has a translator and a newer style maf. The originals have lived their life cycle.

Added: After reading Steve input, I'm also willing to bet this maf doesn't make it to 255 @wot either. The translator is hard to swallow at $200 but you only have to buy it once. Worth it in aggravation. Then you use commonly available mafs you can get at a wrecking yard for a pittance. Or new or rebuilt ones for cheap compared unreliable stock ones.

Hi Texas T.  I hear ya. Cut to the chase and eliminate the MAF given the ~30yrs of experience with them.  Even Steve said right off the lot the MAF was bad.  I've learned something and have the MAF feather in my cap  

[Steve Wood]

the translator uses a modern maf that works differently than the original mafs.  It uses the ones from modern gM engines and the Translator converts between frequency and voltage so the new ones will work on our old cars.  It doesn't replace the maf - just uses a modern, much more durable one.  If you don't have emissions check, you can eliminate the maf entirely but I suspect you do.

[Pyro6]

Welcome and do you have a major headache yet!

[motorhead]

Mike,

I have the weatherpak tool here at the house (but, I believe you can get one from Princess Auto for a few bucks), and there is a factory MAF on the shelf.  As for the MAF screen make certain it is the one into the MAF, not out of it, that you retain - reducing turbulence BEFORE the sensor wire/film is paramount to a clean signal.  I also have a few GM LS1/truck-style MAFs here at the house if you go with a Translator.  You can also go Speed Density as your car does not require an emissions test.

[daveismissing]

The venturi throat (necked) MAFS are not all bad, Some work fine.