What would you do?

[TTA1326]

TTA #1326 has been parked for nearly 3 years now. It started with a new Limit Stage 5 TA61 that I ran at only 18psi for quite a while. I finally decided to turn it up into the 25psi range and bought a chip from Eric to do it. As I turned it up 1psi at a time it went lean on the Power Logger around 21-22psi, don't really remember. A fuel pressure gauge on the windshield showed me 2-4 psi LESS than it should have on 3 blasts. Julio's alky kit apparently covered it though, because I had zero KR. The car had\still has a roughly 12 (now 15) year old Red's XP pump in it (with a hot wire) and got parked due to wife's health problems among other things.


Now, I'm trying to figure out everything to get it running. I have a DW300 fuel pump from Nick and a Racetronix tank harness that wasn't available 15+ years ago. Of course I have a fuel filter, plugs, oil and filter, battery, etc (spring cleaning). My memory sucks (fact), so when I uncovered the car and pushed it out of the garage was my first remindered that it had developed an oil leak before I parked it. The back of the car is black. I also found new front rotors and AC pads in the back floor board lol.


I know it needs the timing chain replaced (age and 93K on the car now). I also know that means building the front cover, oil pump, cam button, etc. The valve cover gaskets are fresh, the engine is clean topside and appears to only have oil along the pan rail, so I'm only guessing it's the common oil pan and\or rear main seal that's leaking oil, which puts me into overlapping work with the timing chain.  So anyway, I'm not EXACTLY stupid, but I am wondering which way should I go!  So many problems lol...


Note: I've read as many posts as I can find on everything I'm going to ask, but I don't think I'm going to clean up the engine and start it up to find the oil leak.  It hasn't been turned over in 3 years and I kind of want the timing chain out BEFORE it's running.  If that's extra work, so be.  It's the price of admission with these cars as far as I'm concerned.  But...




1 - Should I do this in the car?  Front cover, timing chain, oil pan, and possibly a rear main seal? Or just yank it out? If have to pull the intercooler and so many accessories to get the cover off, there won't be much left to get the headers off and pull the shortblock.  However, I've done worse in various cars when I was 20 years younger. TPIS heads, cam, etc, on a '96 Ram Air for instance.


2 - If it's coming out, "IF", then I'm going to do head gaskets. The car hasn't had head gaskets since 1991, under warranty at that. I like telling folks the short block has NEVER been out, but if it's coming out for the first time, it's getting head gaskets. Yes or no?


3 - Since I might be looking at some or all of the above crap, I'm going to do a leak down test on all cylinders before I do anything else. I guess I'll disconnect the ignition, put in the new battery, and spin it over until it has oil pressure, then check all cylinders? Or do I need to put something in each cylinder? I've only done this test once before on a BBC that was running fine, but had a miss. Turned out to be a bent pushrod in that case.




Alex


EDIT:  Mods that I can remember...


Stock long block, Limit TA61 Stage 5 with .63 Garrett, 3" downpipe, Dump pipe, 3" Hooker exhaust, Valve springs, 62mm throttle body with block off plugs, ported plenum, RJC Power Plate, RJC Hybrid boost controller, Red's XP fuel pump, Billet AFPR, Hot wire, ATR PVC valve, Double VC breathers, MSD plug wires, Alky Control, Power Logger, 9" K&N, LS1 IAT sensor, CK shift kit, 240a Alternator, Billet thermostat housing, Turbo Tweak chip, 50lbs Injectors

[Scoobum]

I'd pull the engine and fire the cover off to Earl for the mods...or read his writeup and do it yourself. You can do the timing chain and rear seal on the stand...much easier than in car. The 300 pump may or may not overwhelm your return line. Different ways of dealing with it. If you're doing the head gaskets...swap in a new set of valve springs and have the heads 'trued' up...but be sure to take off the bare minumum. And also have 'em pressure checked. Have the injectors cleaned as well.

[motorhead]

Bench build a new engine, store the original block, and turn it up with the supporting mods.

[TexasT]

Man, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I'd do the timing set in the car. Put a set of valve springs on and some new VC gaskets to cure the leak. Leak it down before you begin and the results might change that advice.
I have the dw200 in mine. Dw300 is a big pump. It can work and work well. Does it have the stock maf?

[Just a Six?]

Pull it & you can do a nicer job & your back won't be sore for a week. Plus then the engine bay is easy to clean.
I'm using the RJC head gaskets with the Goop & they seem to be pretty decent.
I ordered a few sets of Victors from Napa up here about 10 years ago if you prefer staying stock.

[Pyro6]

Sitting for 3 years, all bearings, rings, and chain are dry. If you are not committed to a complete engine freshen up, I would test it. I think a leak down test is a waste of time for an engine sitting 3 years. Just me, I'd probably get it running again before I'd do anything. Get on the crank pulley, spin it by hand to see if it's free. Drop the oil and filter. Fill a new filter as much as you can before installing. Get old gas out if you can, put as much fresh gas as you feel comfortable and fire it up. I know you think it's extra work but 3 years is a long time, maybe spare you the 20/20 hindsight. I just experienced pulling several old cars out of lengthy storage, not GN's, but it's all nuts and bolts just the same. I've found it saved the customer a lot of expense and headache.

[Steve Wood]

I would pull the plugs should a squirt into each cylinder.  Then I would pull the cam sensor, prime the engine with a drill, turn it a quarter turn, prime it again, turn it another quarter, reprime, etc until the engine has made a complete rotation....th is is two fold to get a little oil on the cylinder walls and too get oil into all lifters, rockers, of the engine.

Set the cam sensor, put the plugs back in it, verify fuel pressure and crank it up

[Steve Wood]

And, for the most accurate PL readings, ground it and the AFX to the same place

[daveismissing]

Keep in mind the guys here who advocate a pull are the ones who pull every year like clockwork
and are very efficient at it.
 

[TTA1326]

Well, I should have expected surprises right off the bat I guess, but not this.  The engine is as clean as it ever has been (which is to say it's not filthy and it's not spotless)...




The battery is also clean, completely full in all cells, and no signs of damage.  This was after I took it out and it was hooked up for the last 3 years.  Like I said, my wife's health problems came on suddenly and I never once thought the car would sit this long.




However, I first noticed the vent cap was gone from the washer bottle tank (Alky control and denatured).  I could not find the cap until I removed the battery and found it behind the head lights.  Then I spot this right off...




Notice how filthy the frame rail is, the deposits down in the wiring loom, and off course this connector.  The thumb "latch" or whatever is gone.  It's looks like it's been eaten.  I guess battery acid could do this, but there's no sign of it  This car isn't that dirty.  Then I turn it over...




No THAT, looks melted.  I was laying right on the frame rail in the light spot at the top.  Look at the top side too.  Ideas?  Did the Alky tank pop the top?  I think the filter was clean, but I'm going back to look.  Did I have a flash under the hood?  Glad I still have my house.

Oh, the oil issue.  Look at the top picture again.  I have had a light covering of oil and dirt, dust, or whatever on the top of the engine forever.  I'm sure it's because I have the 4 breather cap hack on the stock valve covers.  It's nasty, but it's looked like this for years.  However, what's new is oil on the front side of the (brand new a month or two before I parked it) plug wires and covers, primarily on the passenger side.  It's also on the front edge of the trans dipstick and the rear 2 injectors on the passenger side.  Front injector and the drivers side injectors are clean.

There is also a 10" or so round oil slick right under the intercooler fan.  I have a drip pan under the oil pan, but it was nasty before I parked the car.  The oil in front of that pan is new.  It looks to far forward to be the front seal.  Running down the intercooler mount?  I'm going to head over to my dads and snatch my floor jack back.  I forgot he had it, but I want to jack it up right where it is and have a look before I move the car.

[TTA1326]

The Alky filter is clean...

[TTA1326]

A friend of mine (who's not on the internet that I know of) says this is very common on TTAs.  He claims to have seen lower mileage cars than mine come out of storage with no signs of battery acid leakage (and stock with no Alky), but with this exact connector eaten up.  So, I don't know.  Maybe it was already hot on the bottom and the acid just needed 3 years of no "fairly regular" driving (including rain) to eat the connector?  I guess I will be ordering both ends from Casper's and just moving on next weekend.

[TTA1326]

I pulled the dipstick several times for at least some indication of what the oil looks like, and while it's turning black, it still has a translucent yellow when I rolled the dipstick around under a light.  It's only a third of a quart low too.  So the oil leak must be while the engine is running\hot.

I got a bit of a look under the car.  It's hard to jack it up very much against a block wall on the passenger side.  The trans? cooler lines hanging under the front edge of the intercooler are a mess.  (I know it's been sitting a long time, but...). The oil in the floor looks like it might have run down the back of the intercooler, but I wiped a rag over that and it was fairly dry and clean.  The front cover, balancer, and front seal appear dry.

The oil pan has semi dried streaks around the front center bolt and along both sides of the sump that go down and back.  The K member crossover has stains that are square to the oil pan edges, front to back, side to side, and top to bottom.  The torque converter cover still has enough oil soak that it has a drop hanging down out of the drain hole.  I'm going to get the car up higher and pull that cover for a better look.

I took the plugs out and put a socket on the alternator nut.  The belt is stretched and loose, but there was no resistance at all while I made about 4 full turns on the engine.  No noises, no hard spots.  It spins freely and easily.  The only thing I could hear was air being pushed out at TDC.

[TTA1326]

I don't know, but I think I have a lot of oil coming from the 4 stupid breathers on the valve covers.  These valve covers rarely leak between the cover and the head (if you check the nuts every now and then, which I do at just about every oil change) and the gasket were replaced shortly before it was parked.  I could put oil caps on them, but I think I'll just have the side holes welded up and drop down to 2 breathers.  I might be able to get baffles welded in as well.  Notice the dry and clean front injector plug (if you zoom in).  The injector looks the same while the back two are soaked.  The drivers side is similar.  Also notice the oil is on the front of the plug wire covers and trans dipstick (I had a whole roll of the plug wire cover left from doing my 461 BBC, so what the heck).  There is no oil on the sides or back.




The top of the engine is nasty, the bottom is nasty around the oil pan, but it's clean on both sides in the middle and on the front cover in the middle.  The top of the front cover is nasty down to about the middle line of the water pump and then it's as clean as the side of the block you see here.  The starter heat shield is one of the only place I see run off.




The oil pan is a disaster all the way around, except right over the top of the K member.  The back of the block, crank, flywheel, torque converter, and inside of the trans housing are all clean.  Inside the "dust pan" is different.




The mini starter is clean.




I'm leaning toward yanking it out and fixing it all at once unless somebody talks me out of it!  Is aluminum oxidation a problem in the turbo?  I wiped out the inlet bell, but I would have to have a local turbo shop clean out the rest ( http://www.workturbochargers.com ).  That's my finger print on the right side and the white powder I wiped out is below the bell on the radiator hose.  There's a lot of it.

[Scoobum]

If you pull the engine...remov e the convertor and change the front pump seal.