My first build! Guidance is always welcomed.

[bcn30141]

10-4 on that....that's the last thing I want is a hole in the piston or worse...that's one reason I moved to the extender chip, perhaps using the tune by AF option on the Gen 2 will assist in keeping things in the safe zone. I got a AFX wide band to make it all work, I hope it mingles well with the Gen2.

[Steve Wood]

I don't know how it will keep it in the safe zone....It does not control fuel pressure..and, when one is running alky on top of fuel, the alky can cover up a loss of fuel pressure or a too lean fuel curve until it is too late...

[Scoobum]

The only thing I trust to control fuel is my right foot.

[Steve Wood]

and the amount of timing retard (which should be zero) on the scantool....an d even that is not reliable as the fuel pump can be failing and the alky will cover up the failing pump for awhile...

I am not a big fan of using the wb to control the chip's fueling for several reasons.

The primary reason is that I have had three fail on me while driving...once at full throttle (not a pretty sight when you are running an a/f down in the tens and suddenly it is reading 14's and making noises

I am currently using an AFX on one of my cars...one day I cranked it up and it was reading something other than what it normally read by a couple of numbers...I messed with it reset it, reconnected it, etc and it was still off.  I walked off and left it for a month or so.  Cranked it up and it was back to what it should be.  Factory O2 never changed at all and the car was running perfectly.

Now, it did not make any difference because I had already learned to not let it control the fueling from prior experiences with my Innovates.  I use the wb to tweak my fuel curves on my SD chips but I run open loop so the only thing that can change the fueling is me, or a bad pump or associated problem.  That's just me

Of course, I have long ago learned that there is no magic numbers for AF, timing, or whatever...I run whatever gives me the best performance without any detonation as evidenced by timing retard...on the street, I add a couple of percent more fuel back in for a safety margin given that ambient conditions change so much on the street.  Any time someone tells me that I should be running some magic number for air fuel, or whatever, I know I am dealing with an idiot.

[earlbrown]

Absolutely, do not run the car hard until you can monitor the fuel pressure while going down the track.  That should be the number one commandment of forced aspiration racing.

It is.....


....but we have a lot of sinners in our midst.

[bcn30141]

From my understanding Steve and I hope I get this right. ...timing at zero is understood and Alky will keep that in its tracks with compression ratio increase with boost, also I suppose the general rule is max out timing until knock will no longer allow...increa se fuel to keep detonation out and cylinders not to hot, but not piggish running...I suppose that's around 750mv or it's AF equivalent. Now where the AFX and Gen2 work in ( my understanding which may be corrected) is the Gen2 reads the wide band, and raises or lowers the fuel amount by the tuners determined percentage of increase or decrease to keep it in that ball park, so yes the gen 2 is doing this on the afterthought of O2 readings but it all is going on very fast. unfortunately this all only works with the extreme chip. I can only hope everything stays reliable with hardware that maintains tuning factors. I have read a lot of good and bad reviews on almost every product...I ask questions to venders about their chips in comparison to competitors and it's always one side no matter what. I can only attempt to tune the best I can with what I got, I guess I'm in the experimental phase of products but I am weeding some things out early. No doubt I will confirm the fuel psi rise with boost...the only thing I don't have is a knock alarm...I do want that....do they make an audible alarm with out a gauge ? Im really not crazy about lots of blinking lights going on in the car during night driving.

[bcn30141]

Steve how do you run open loop all the time? Is that preset in the chip? I assume you might have to make seasonal adjustments to outside temperatures often? I like that idea so I'm not so dependent on the computers adjustments in closed loop.

[Steve Wood]

I run the Speed Density TT chip.  You program it to run either closed loop, or open loop.  If you put in 99 in the fueling slots where you would normally specify a/f's, it runs open loop-

I have never run the TT 6.0 or 6.1, but they are probably the same...As I don't have emission testing out here, I don't need a maf...just another potential problem eliminated

I prefer to make it as simple as possible in order to eliminate potential problems whether hardware or software.

It is very simple.  Ignore timing, run as much boost as you can without detonation on as little fuel as you can without detonation.

If you are running 93 octane and 7% alky your a/f might be X.  If you are running 93 plus 15% alky, the a/f might be something else.  If you are running 91 octane and some amount of alky, it might be something else.  If you have 8.2-1 compression ratio, the a/f might be another number.  If you have a CR of 9.3, it might be again another number.  If you live at 3000' altitude and the temperature is 45 degs, then the a/f might be something else or if you live at sea level and it is 100 degs, it might be another number.  If you have a stock cam it might be another number.  If you have a 214 deg cam and some mix of all of the above, it may be anohter number.  If you have a stock IC it might be this and if you have a big volume ic, it might be that....

There is no substitute for finding out what runs the best for your combo under given conditions...i t is time consuming but that is what tuning is.  If you take time to understand all the factors, then you can short cut the process.  Too many have no interest and no undertanding-they just want a number.  they may have a good running car but they may never run what it could.

I told turbocajun to reduce his timing from 21 degs in 3rd to 18 degs the other day.  He picked up two miles per hour on the top end (went 122)  He did not change the boost.  Might have been a fluke but he lost nothing on the time and gained top end.    I just had a feeling based upon experience.  the only way  you get experience is by a lot of iterations.

You have to get consistent fuel pressure and be able to prove it before you start playing.  You need PL and I like to be able to monitor fp on pl so I can see any drop offs...sometim es it is hard to watch the fp and steer at 120 mph.  I guess i am getting old and have to pay attention to where I am going and what is in front of me

[Steve Wood]

Another thought...if you set the wide band to 10.8 and you are running 93 and alky...and then you crank up the alky a couple of notches....chi p has to alter the fueling to maintain 10.8 a/f which it hopefully does.

Can one actually equate the two and say 10.8 is what my car likes?  Or does one have to specify all the parameters because the 10.8 does not mean a lot ?  How do we explain that the car went faster with the first 10.8 than it did with the second 10.8 if 10.8 is what some guy on the board said that was the correct a/f.  Alky has a different a/f number for optimum burn than does gas...and we are running a mixture  so all bets might be off other than genralities based upon experience

Does this remain constant whether we run a TE 44 or a 6775?

Typically, with a small turbo like a stock unit, on race gas, we might have run 30 degs of timing because we could not push the boost up much past 22 psi because it was out of the turbo's efficiency zone and was just making hot air.  On a larger turbo, we might not be able to run much over 18-20 degs even tho we run much lower boost, get colder air, and stuff a bunch more air molecules into the cylinder.

[bcn30141]

If I had not invested in the ls1 MAF and stuff I would be speed density operational myself. Thanks for all your feedback Steve....i really look forward to the tuning part, it's gonna be fun to find that sweet spot where everything meshes just right....,I plan to use this thread and many others as reference. Well I need to come up with a tool to replace the front cam bearing, my Pops had one he made for a small block Chevy but it's to big to punch the 3.8's.

[bcn30141]

I just ordered a Audible Knock Alarm from Caspers.....Ho oooRaaa!

[bcn30141]

Could somebody please explain the line on the picture that says "these specs are for cam installed at 110.0 intake center line" do I still align my marks up on the timing chain sprockets or is to be set back or fourth a few tooth? Thanks!

[Steve Wood]

http://www.compcams.com/technical/instructions/files/145.pdf

[bcn30141]

Thanks Steve, great material...I got my answer!

[bcn30141]

Questions, since my valves are going to have a little more travel (higher cam lift), should I clean the stems up and replace the valves seals or can I just swap my springs out and clips...I got to thinking the stem seals might get roughened up where there previously didn't ride on the stem. The last time they were replaced were 11k ago.
Also do fellas put you timing cover on first before your oil pan on build up?
Do you all recommend using a thin layer of grey silicone or that alike on the gaskets or does it matter?
 Do I need to remove the ECM to replace my chip or can it stay plugged up?, the connectors are in there pretty tight and I don't want to F it up pulling them out.
Is it anymore complicated to set the engine in with exhaust manifolds on?
Where have you all placed the audible knock alarm inside the cabin?
Can you tell I'm a newbie lol...thanks for any responses