Office duster/HC152A conversion

[Charlief1]

Not sure what you want to hear Mark. If it's working then I really don't see an issue.

[SuperSix]

Not sure what you want to hear Mark. If it's working then I really don't see an issue.

Just wondering of you saw a glaring error or three.

Seems my math is right - Wife and I took it to DQ tonight for some ice cream, A/C was cold, had to turn the blower down a bit.

[Charlief1]

Nope, sounds like you did everything right Mark. It's not that hot yet so when it really gets hot report back and see how it's working.

[SuperSix]

Keep an eye on Big Lots if there's one in your area.

They had a 20% off day a week or so ago, valid on your entire purchase.

They had 12oz cans of R134A for $8 ea, so $6.40 ea with the coupon. They only had 15 cans left, i got them all. I plan t start collecting cans of R134A since they are banning it in the near future (Or so I hear?)

They also had the HC152A office duster - 3x 10oz cans (1 TR system refill) for $10, or $8 after the coupon. I only grabbed two 3-packs, I should have gotten more.

[SuperSix]

Another succesful HC152A conversion - the wife's '96 Integra.

Last year, I replaced most of the A/C. Ever since then the performance has been OK, not great, and the hotter it gets, the worse it seems to be. So, while she doesn't ask for much, she asked I check it out. There has also, since my rebuild, another issue that drives her crazy - a whistle from the evaporator, or possibly the expansion valve. The expansion valve is one thing I should have replaced, but didn't.

I thought that the whistle may be the expansion valve.. I think I saw a reference or two online to that.

I bought a new valve, and planned on putting it in today. I decided the recover the system, vacuum it down, and refill it with HC152A. Then see, once other variables were eliminated (freon level, water/air in system, etc) if it still whistled, possibly saving the bullshit task of removing the evap under the dash, and replacing the exp valve. I also changed the high side Shcrader valve, I only had one replacement though. Pulled and lubricated the low side one for good measure.

I used a hillbilly tactic to measure the oil that came out when I "recovered" the R134A that was in the system. I caught it in a clean catch jar - and used a digital scale to see how much oil I needed to add back in. After realizing I didn't HAVE anymore PAG100 (Or any PAG, for that matter), I poured back in what I caught in above mentioned catch jar.

Pulled a vacuum on it for ~2 hours, The R134A/HC152A ratio is .64. Factory fill is ~23oz, 23 * .64 = 14.72oz HC152A.

I put in one 10oz can, and the center outlet was down to 48f, ~85 ambient, ~50% humidity. All at idle.

I stopped there, 48f is pretty damn good - not sure I wanna fuck with it.

So - it cost me $2.67 to refill the A/C. ($8/3pk 10oz cans)

[SuperSix]

Whoa..

HC152A (Office dusters "canned air") is:


• Better for the environment, doesn't deplete or damage the ozone layer.
• Lighter molecular weight means less is needed (.64 ratio) Average Honda R134A charge - ~23oz, equivalent HC152A charge - ~15.4oz
• Much cheaper (HC152A ~$4/can, R134A - ~$13/can, non sale prices)
• Completely compatible with existing R134A (and properly converted R12) lubricants and systems
• Performance exceeds R134A in many scenarios in most systems
• Rumor has it that R134A is getting phased out in the next 1-2 years, I assume the cost of R134A will jump

So why aren't the auto manufacturers using it?

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrigerants/SNAP_MVAC_Factsheetfinal.html

FACT SHEET: Substitute Listing in the Motor Vehicle Air Conditioning Sector

Action

    EPA is listing R-152a as an acceptable alternative with use conditions for motor vehicle air conditioning systems.
    This final rule allows the use of a new alternative to ozone depleting substances in the motor vehicle air conditioning sector and outline the conditions necessary for its safe use. The substitute is a non ozone-depleting gas and consequently does not contribute to stratospheric ozone depletion.
    This new alternative, when used with proper risk mitigation technologies, would reduce the impact of mobile air conditioners on the environment.

Background

    Under the Significant New Alternatives Policy (SNAP) program (Section 612 of the Clean Air Act), EPA reviews alternatives to Class I and Class II ozone depleting substances (ODS) and approves use of alternatives which reduce the overall risk to public health and the environment.
    Since 1994, the SNAP program has reviewed approximately 400 alternatives across the industrial, consumer, and military sectors.
    The European Union has proposed and is expected to ban the use of HFC-134a and other fluorinated gases in a variety of applications. By the end of the decade, car manufacturers in the European market may have to move to this new alternative. In response, U.S. car manufacturers are developing systems using this new alternative refrigerant as well.
    If auto manufacturers chose to adopt this technology, they would be required to install safety devices to mitigate risks of fire or over-exposure to the refrigerant in the event of an accidental release during servicing or vehicle operation.

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[daveismissing]

DO we believe all the duster brands use the same propellant?
Checked 3 so far - funny how the brand and "msds" pops up in the google popular searches

[SuperSix]

DO we believe all the duster brands use the same propellant?
Checked 3 so far - funny how the brand and "msds" pops up in the google popular searches

I believe they do, but the don't all state "HCF152A" on the label - but the have to list an MSDS code somewhere. I look for the note that the added a "bittering agent" to limit inhalation abuse - that tells me it's freon.

Of course, I stand there and study the can for five minutes anyway.

Of course, I can't be held responsible if there is a non-HC152A duster brand out there, buyer beware.

[TexasT]

Got me a three pak,(actually the daughter picked it up for me). Now to save up for the rest of the stuff, like gauges, vac pump, and probably most of the parts. The a/c hasnt worked on my T for many(read 2 decades) years so I'm sure I'm down for most of the components. Now that I've matured(got old) the wife has deemed a/c as a necessity.


Mine were of the 10 oz variety and went for $10. I will be on the lookout for the 20% sale mentioned above so I can pick up enough to do the rest of my vehicles. EEFF dupont and their 134a.

[SuperSix]

That's the same one I grabbed with the coupon.

I feel the same way, the older I get, the less I see something like A/C as a "luxury". And I am sure my wife appreciates it too.

The gauges and vac pump are all from Harbor Freight- keep an eye out for coupons. There's always 20% ones out there, I have seen a few new 25% coupons. Get it while on sale, not with a coupon, you can't combine.

One thing I don't like about the gauges is the port connectors. The high side one burped an o-ring, and I couldn't get it apart to fix it without breaking it. I bought a pair of these - MUCH easier to attach and remove. They don't have valves in them, but I don't care about that.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000M5WT8Y

[Steve Wood]

as I am lazy and don't want to read-how do you get it out of the spray can and into a hose?

[SuperSix]

as I am lazy and don't want to read-how do you get it out of the spray can and into a hose?

Modified side-tap tool.

[Steve Wood]

I forgot all about those side tap tools...rememb er something almost every day while I forget at least ten things!

[Charlief1]

If you use a side tap use a knife or something to scrape the pain off the side where you want to puncture it. The spike is hollow and can catch some of the paint when it goes through the side. It may not cause a problem but I'd rather not have the extra trash in the system.

[daveismissing]

Aren't these the right size?