XFI vs ECM

[ttipe]

Steve,I suspect a major software rewrite within the abbaccus software set is required to run Safeguard (like turn off ESC).I'm not saying it can't happen.A lot of consideration would be required.This is a major reason for my enthusiasm of external engine management.
On another note I would show up at Steve Y's house after work every once in a while and Walt's car might be mentioned.I know he helped Walt a lot. 

[ULYCYC]

 This is a typical turbo buick owner of today. He goes to the track and runs 14’s and is pissed. Hits the bulletin boards and is told about tuning but ignores the info. He goes out and buys 4” downpipe, 1200hp turbo, triple valve springs,  double pumper, 400 amp alternator, 55lb injectors and Reds chip and ready for the 10’s. But to his surprise  he only made it to the 13’s. He is told on the board that his setup can handle 30lbs of boost with alky so that’s his next buy. After not listening on how to tune for alky he blows up the motor and blames all the part manufacturers. Now he looks deeper in this tune thing and sees XFI is better then the rhythm method of birth control. He spends a few thousand on it and gets a startup program and goes to the track. Still pissed he is in the 13’s  calls go out to supertuners. Being cheap as most buick guys he won’t pay. He gets a few friends who read  some xfi tuning secrets and hit the track. Now he runs 13.0 but flames are shooting out the side of the head and the track is pissed for the oil down. Now the peanut gallery chimes in and says buick sucks and now he drop in a bulletproof LSX

[norbs]

The stock ecm is a work of art for its time, but when you get into a really sensitive tune it does not have the flexibility of the  after market units.   Here is some more info on the XFI.   The XFI does not fix mistakes programmed in by the user, that is why things go wrong, it also needs room for improvement, you can check out my improvement list.


http://www.cpgnation.com/forum/fast-xfi-2-0-faqs-5761.html


Improvement list or wish list

http://www.cpgnation.com/forum/fast-xfi-updated-suggested-improvement-list-7005.html

[norbs]

This is a typical turbo buick owner of today. He goes to the track and runs 14’s and is pissed. Hits the bulletin boards and is told about tuning but ignores the info. He goes out and buys 4” downpipe, 1200hp turbo, triple valve springs,  double pumper, 400 amp alternator, 55lb injectors and Reds chip and ready for the 10’s. But to his surprise  he only made it to the 13’s. He is told on the board that his setup can handle 30lbs of boost with alky so that’s his next buy. After not listening on how to tune for alky he blows up the motor and blames all the part manufacturers. Now he looks deeper in this tune thing and sees XFI is better then the rhythm method of birth control. He spends a few thousand on it and gets a startup program and goes to the track. Still pissed he is in the 13’s  calls go out to supertuners. Being cheap as most buick guys he won’t pay. He gets a few friends who read  some xfi tuning secrets and hit the track. Now he runs 13.0 but flames are shooting out the side of the head and the track is pissed for the oil down. Now the peanut gallery chimes in and says buick sucks and now he drop in a bulletproof LSX

That is so funny, but true, with the wrong numbers entered it could be all over quick

[Steve Wood]

Steve,I suspect a major software rewrite within the abbaccus software set is required to run Safeguard (like turn off ESC).I'm not saying it can't happen.A lot of consideration would be required.This is a major reason for my enthusiasm of external engine management.
On another note I would show up at Steve Y's house after work every once in a while and Walt's car might be mentioned.I know he helped Walt a lot.

The guy that developed the safeguard system said it worked without any mods and tried to get me to try one several times but I never did as I was not racing.  Seemed like a really nice guy.

Steve was/is still burning chips for Walt as far as I know.  Been a few months since we discussed it.  Right now he is trying to get his new water well to pump and take pictures of the bear/cub that is hanging around his cabin

[Top Speed]

I guess I am at the point where I just want to get in my car and drive it and not have to fiddle with things all of the time.

[Turbodave]

Thos

Norbs - Give us the pros and cons, when and why to switch, total cost, driveability.

The stock ecu does not provide immunity to interference from MSD boxes.

Thanks for getting engaged here Norbs, its all interesting and I'll have to study it all.


Did this (the above) turn out to be the ECM or all that Moates stuff?

Dave, the Moates stuff would corrupt the bin file randomly after powering the ecu down. You could re-flash it and it would be fine for a day, a week,,,,,, then all of a sudden a ecu code pops up bad eeprom.  So i had to scrap that plan.  Using the chip from Eric it  ran great, however at high rpm/boost the mass air signal and during accel would go erratic, and start throwing timing all over the place, knock etc. Then I decided to go SD mode to eliminate the MAF out of the equation, it worked much better, however it still  would start doing weird things and I could not get consistant results to hold the timing or the closed loop fuel control steady at WOT.  Put the fast in and timing was rock solid, and great fuel control....... .......

Those problems may have had more to do with the chip than the ECM.  I haven't seen such issues, and still run the stock ECM. However mine differs in that I am running the Tranlsator Pro.  I have great bins for either MAF or SD. Running SD now.

[norbs]

I ran the pro as well, and it would randomly take the timing to 34 degrees under boost,,,,,,,,,,,but only once in a while. I could not risk the motor so I had to abort everything stock ecu related, I think everything was EMI related.

[motorhead]

This is a typical turbo buick owner of today. He goes to the track and runs 14’s and is pissed. Hits the bulletin boards and is told about tuning but ignores the info. He goes out and buys 4” downpipe, 1200hp turbo, triple valve springs,  double pumper, 400 amp alternator, 55lb injectors and Reds chip and ready for the 10’s. But to his surprise  he only made it to the 13’s. He is told on the board that his setup can handle 30lbs of boost with alky so that’s his next buy. After not listening on how to tune for alky he blows up the motor and blames all the part manufacturers. Now he looks deeper in this tune thing and sees XFI is better then the rhythm method of birth control. He spends a few thousand on it and gets a startup program and goes to the track. Still pissed he is in the 13’s  calls go out to supertuners. Being cheap as most buick guys he won’t pay. He gets a few friends who read  some xfi tuning secrets and hit the track. Now he runs 13.0 but flames are shooting out the side of the head and the track is pissed for the oil down. Now the peanut gallery chimes in and says buick sucks and now he drop in a bulletproof LSX

Hey! I haven't oiled down a track yet...

[Steve Wood]

Maybe not, but one thing is for sure, you were a lot more fun when you were young and dumb

[Turbodave]

I think everything was EMI related.

It usually always comes back to that when there are random unexplainable timing issues  (EMI, RFI, Bad grounds).

[Turbodave]

How ma

This is a typical turbo buick owner of today. He goes to the track and runs 14’s and is pissed. Hits the bulletin boards and is told about tuning but ignores the info. He goes out and buys 4” downpipe, 1200hp turbo, triple valve springs,  double pumper, 400 amp alternator, 55lb injectors and Reds chip and ready for the 10’s. But to his surprise  he only made it to the 13’s. He is told on the board that his setup can handle 30lbs of boost with alky so that’s his next buy. After not listening on how to tune for alky he blows up the motor and blames all the part manufacturers. Now he looks deeper in this tune thing and sees XFI is better then the rhythm method of birth control. He spends a few thousand on it and gets a startup program and goes to the track. Still pissed he is in the 13’s  calls go out to supertuners. Being cheap as most buick guys he won’t pay. He gets a few friends who read  some xfi tuning secrets and hit the track. Now he runs 13.0 but flames are shooting out the side of the head and the track is pissed for the oil down. Now the peanut gallery chimes in and says buick sucks and now he drop in a bulletproof LSX

How many times have we heard/seen that scenario played out!!   

[motorhead]

This sounds like something I'd have said to a girl right before I dumped her:

Maybe not, but one thing is for sure, you were a lot more fun when you were young and dumb

Because old and dumb isn't as much fun...

[daveismissing]

Thos

Norbs - Give us the pros and cons, when and why to switch, total cost, driveability.

The stock ecu does not provide immunity to interference from MSD boxes.

Thanks for getting engaged here Norbs, its all interesting and I'll have to study it all.


Did this (the above) turn out to be the ECM or all that Moates stuff?

Dave, the Moates stuff would corrupt the bin file randomly after powering the ecu down. You could re-flash it and it would be fine for a day, a week,,,,,, then all of a sudden a ecu code pops up bad eeprom.  So i had to scrap that plan.  Using the chip from Eric it  ran great, however at high rpm/boost the mass air signal and during accel would go erratic, and start throwing timing all over the place, knock etc. Then I decided to go SD mode to eliminate the MAF out of the equation, it worked much better, however it still  would start doing weird things and I could not get consistant results to hold the timing or the closed loop fuel control steady at WOT.  Put the fast in and timing was rock solid, and great fuel control....... .......

Those problems may have had more to do with the chip than the ECM.  I haven't seen such issues, and still run the stock ECM. However mine differs in that I am running the Tranlsator Pro.  I have great bins for either MAF or SD. Running SD now.

GM engineers had a relatively controlled environment since they spec'd ALL the sensors and ancilliary electronics.
Then along comes Norby with his MSD  emi generators...



One advantage of newer CPU horsepower is you can digitally filter in your code and revisit that suspicious input to validate it, eliminating the crap.

[norbs]

The bottom line is you can tune it the way you want any af you want and timing........ .under any boost condition or cruising...