Newbie w. New GN

[smokin-6]

 I have cleared out some space in our dining room, and I am going to be moving my engine assembly area inside where there is AC. Hopefully this will allow me to expedite this project Time will only tell how this decision goes over with the better half , but I think she will enjoy the extra time she'll be able to spend with me on the weekends
 
 
 

 Maybe if we can make our engine parts useful for the ladies they won't mind them in the house

[bryes]

Now that's hardcore! Very cool!

[bryes]

Hello everyone again. I have finally made a decision on the path forward with the short block for now. As you may or may not know, after completing the intake and having the heads done, the short block is my final major step. And since I haven't found any good used blocks on the boards (within what I feel I can spend and such). So I have decided to move forward and reuse my existing motor. Unfortunately, having the engine bored out with new pistons is simply out of the question for me at this time.  I am just going to have to be satisfied with what I can do myself for now.


That being said, I have done some more research on that bad cylinder and I believe it is possible to repair it. In fact, I have spoken with someone who had similar melt-down in a turbo motor and successfully repaired the bore himself. So using his method, I was able to get all the aluminum off the bores with a wire brush. Then I very lightly honed out the cylinder to remove any high spots I might have missed.

The resulting repair is below.

[bryes]

In the above figure, I have marked the location of the major aluminum meltdown with a smear of dye. In that area I wire brushed off a maximum measured 0.0005” of cylinder. The vertical score marks that appear are very light and all but 2 cannot be finger nailed or felt. Of the two deeper 2 scratches that you can see in the picture, I can barely feel the one while the largest scratch I can feel and will just slightly grab with a finger nail. Although I have removed less than 0.0001”, I am hesitant to hone any further as my primary goal was to remove the high spots. Not sure how much more would be gained.

Everything in this bore now measures similar to the other bores. In general the wear is a maximum of 1 thou more than about 1.5” away from the head surfaces.  Bores are generally nominal diameter when measured across the wrist pin centerline the whole way down.

I have used assembly dye on the cylinder, then inserted a piston ring and cycled it to wear away the dye. I did not find any high spots. The ring wears evenly from what I can tell.

I am temped to leave well enough alone with this cylinder. I think I’d have to really open up the bore in order to remove all traces of scoring and I really don’t think I’d gain much.

[Steve Wood]

sometimes, you gotta do what you can afford to do at the moment.

I would try to find a ball hone (flex hone) and try to put a cross hatch on the walls-I don't see any sign of a cross hatch pattern from the pic

[bryes]

sometimes, you gotta do what you can afford to do at the moment.

I would try to find a ball hone (flex hone) and try to put a cross hatch on the walls-I don't see any sign of a cross hatch pattern from the pic

If you look really closely all the random hone marks, I can just barely make out one or two small sections of  cross hatching! I'd never believe it looking at the result, but I do remember attempting to follow some sort of pattern when honing.


If I run into a  ball hone I'll take another shot at it.


 

[Steve Wood]

should be easy enuf to do..they are cheap and the pattern will hold oil in the walls rather than letting it go straight down the scratches

[bryes]

I have a question about end gap of piston rings. I bought as set of sealed power E-434K piston rings. They are moly and called out for a turbo engine, but I think they may also be used as a premium ring for  NA motors, which might be some of the issue I am having. I have read that they are not supposed to be file fit, and they came with no instructions on the proper gap in the packaging.

When installed into a cylinder it looks like the gap is at most 0.015". I am under the impression the minimum gap should be 0.020" for these motors. From what I read lots of people recommend anywhere from 0.020" to 0.027" gap for the top ring and generally about 0.002" greater gap in the secondary.

I've looked on the federal mogul site for the proper gap, but have found it to be especially useless, so I thought I'd see what everyone thinks or if anyone has a good source for this spec. I am scared to use the 0.015" gap as, especially since I noticed a factory ring was > 0.027".

Thanks in advance

[Steve Wood]

factory specs  http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/factory_engine_specs.htm

If you are building a high boost engine... .006" per inch should be safe

I would probably file the top one to .02

[bryes]

Thanks Steve, I'll file the top rings as close to 0.020" as I can without going under. Second rings I'll aim for 2 thou more.


That is strange that the vortex buick site lists end gap from 0.01" - 0.02", it's the same tolerance that my haynes manual has, and I believe it's for an NA.  I just double checked 2 of the old rings I have, and they have gaps right around 0.032".  This is why I was afraid of the 0.015"

My bores are only worn about 0.001 where I check the ring gap them, so I don't think that explains much. So I guess either my old rings wore this badly in 50k miles, the motor was re-ringed before (not much other evidence of this though), or the ring gap was greater in turbo motors than what was listed on the site...

Either way, I think I am going to shoot for 0.020 to be safe.

[Steve Wood]

my site is copies of the shop manual

most things I read show .0045 to .006" per inch of bore

.020 would be my top number

[bryes]

my site is copies of the shop manual

most things I read show .0045 to .006" per inch of bore

Well mystery solved I think, the ring gaps that I were measuring were both secondary compression ring. I installed a used primary compression ring and I measured it to be a 0.015" gap!

Strange both secondary rings are > 0.032" when it calls for the same 0.010 - 0.020. I wonder though if the secondary rings aren't made from a softer material and therefore were more worn. When I compare the "width" (OD - ID) of my used secondary compression rings  they are noticeably thinner than the new rings in my set, whereas the primary compression rings are the same "width" as both the new rings...

With this in mind, I am no longer afraid to go a little less on the gaps, but I think I'll still aim for the 20 just to be sure.

Thanks again for all your help Steve!

Bryes

[bryes]

I have a small update this week, no pictures because I finished up working today when it was dark. I will try to take some more ASAP, but it will probably be next weekend.

I had a lot going on in September and October, so I was only able to work on the car sporadically, but now I am starting to get back into it. I have the short block assembled now and have sandblasted all of the pulleys, brackets and etc., but I have been stuck trying to paint everything for probably the last month or so. The weather hasn't been cooperating down here, in fact, twice I brought everything out to paint and failed. I  thought Ohio was the only place that bringing parts outside to paint instantly triggers rain clouds, but it seems to work in Savannah too!

Fortunately for me today, the third time was the charm, today the weather was perfect! I was sweating bullets there for a bit thinking that it could be a major stumbling block if the temperature would drop here in Savannah and not rise sufficiently until spring. In Ohio, I have painted even in the 50's, but its hard enough for me to get everything right as it is, so the last thing I want to do was to throw another variable into the equation. Fortunately I was able to spray everything I had prepped. I had some issued with fisheyes on the turbo cover, and dropped one pulley I had just painted in the dirt, but aside from these two mishaps, I think everything turned out pretty well. I used Dupont Imron to paint everything. Old school I know, but I trust that stuff to be tough as nails. It's been awhile since I have painted anything, so that's my excuse for the rookie mistakes.

I should also mention that a few weeks ago I finished sandblasting and painting the headers. I used a Por 15 product called "Black Velvet" that summit racing had on clearance. More pictures on this next week as well.

Well sorry again for the lack of pictures but I'm just really glad to get the paint job out of the way. Hopefully it still looks decent when I see everything in full light! I'll try and get some pictures up so you can tell me what you think.

Bryes

[bryes]

Well I was able to work on the motor this weekend for quite a bit, and although I didn't get as far along as I would have liked to, hopefully the engine will really start taking shape next weekend. I have been sandblasting, chasing the threads and painting just about every fastener, so it is pretty time consuming.


Attached is a picture of the motor in its current state. You can see the oil pan laying upside-down on top. Everything came out fairly nice I'd say, especially for the non-ideal circumstances. I think I had some water in the air lines because my little 2 horse compressor doesn't have any filter, so there are small fish-eyes places, but you have to really look to find them. I'll have to figure out something else when I paint the bumper fillers though. 

I am currently working on the timing cover. I had one heck of a time getting the aluminum bracket that mounts the crank position sensor off of the cover. The dowel was rusted and more or less welded the bracket to the cover. To make matters worse, now I can't get the "pinch bolt" loosened up to remove the sensor, I'm afraid the bolt is just about ready to snap (my next step is heating the bracket, but I'll ruin the sensor). Does anyone sell the whole bracket?

Also, I have to order the cam button and have been reading that it is better to use a roller button out of later model 3.8. Is this the right way to go?

Anyway, that is the update for now, hopefully next week I'll be further along and cant take some better pictures before the sun goes down. There is not enough daylight this time of year, especially when you start working at 1


Bryes

[$1987 GN$]

mouse over me to nos4gn click

AJ___