Newbie w. New GN

[bryes]

Yesterday I found some more damage in the engine. First (and pictured) the timing sprocket was missing a couple of teeth as seen below. Also when I took the cam out into the light, a single lobe corresponding to the valve neares the damaged portion of the damaged piston was scuffed. I could actually see a line where the lobe was worn and / or deformed. None of the other lobes had similar damage.

[bryes]

So I am wondering, not that it matters at this point, what happened to this motor knowing that the plug wires were hooked up wrong, the piston was blown,  the timing sprocket was stripped out and the flywheel bolts were ovaled.


Here are two hair brained theories that could possibly explain everything.

Scenario 1.

Wires were hooked up wrong causing pre-ignition and burning a hole in the piston. Torque converter bolt holes were ovaled from inertial loads of the torque converter mass under negative angular acceleration due to this pre ignition. Same thing happens at the front of the crank to the timing chain with inertial loads from cam, stripping the teeth off the weaker nylon sprocket.
Debris from the piston and burning from hot gasses galled the valve causing it to stick and  Driving it into the cam, scuffing it and ripping out timing gears.


Scenario 2:

Timing chain sprocket breaks and engine runs like crap. To remedy this situation someone comes up with a brain child of hooking up spark plug wires in the wrong order to compensate (don't ask me how they figured out what worked). Pre-ignition results, and damage occurs from this point as described above.



Let me know if anyone else has any ideas / scenarios, thinks the above is complete bollocks or really doesn't care.

Bryes

[gbsean]

ok...who cares about how it happened...bas ed on the damage I have seen you need to have your block checked to see if it can be salvaged...cha nces are most of the rotating assembly is shot...I know money may be tight but what you want to to IMHO will create more problems in the future...if you do not have the $$$ wait and save and do it right...check all the Buick boards for a new used engine..who knows what damage is done to crank/cam/bearings plus 1/2 dozen other things...

[bryes]

Although I am still mulling around my options on the long block, I have begun to work on the intake. At the suggestion of basically everyone, I am going to take this "opportunity" to upgrade my injectors (60 lb I think) and also install an adjustable fuel regulator. I was wondering what exactly to buy?

I will buy brand new parts,  so it suggestions on what brand and where to buy from would be very helpful. The car will remain stock for now, so I was also wondering if I have to change chips with the new injectors, or will the one in there (I think it is stock but not 100% sure) do. I would like to avoid buying a chip if I have to, but it's not that big of a thing.

Also, I ruined on of the sensors (#1) in the picture below so I would like to know what it is first (1- 3 all look like they measure coolant temp) and where to buy a new one (hopefully still available.)

Thanks

[Steve Wood]

yes, the chip has to match the injectors....

Not sure why you have selected 60# injectors unless you want to run in the tens, one day.

Here is a link to TT's injector/chip combo page  http://www.turbotweakstore.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=20

The 42#/chip is capable of lower elevens on race gas, or about 11.0 with alky injection.

The 60# combo will take you to mid tens on race gas or about 10.0 with a dual nozzle alky kit.

The times are extremely dependent upon you having the turbo, intercooler, cam, converter, and everything else required to make the horsepower.

You can see the price difference between the injector sizes.  95% of us will never need more than the 42's.  Only you know your aspirations

Look under the fuel components for the regulator.

Most likely your car does not have a hot wire kit.  If not, pick one of those up as well.

Here's a link off my site for sensor ID  http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/sensorcomponent_locations.htm

[motorhead]

Holy crap that is one fried piston! It is worse than the one I keep on my desk at work...

[bryes]

As always, thanks Steve for the helpful information and for explaining the 42# injectors, that saved me some money. I'll be ordering them today with a fuel regulator and hotwire kit. I need to think about that fuel gauge too, I will probably buy an autometer gauge from summit. I think they are still made in usa, which is worth the extra $$ to me.
 
 I will be buying a scanmaster and possibly a fuel pump (supposedly my pump was replaced, but I have no idea what that really means considering the source) when I get closer to installing the motor. I definitely won't be working on the car much down here when the temperature is > 90; so I really expect this project to be completed in the fall. That is unless my employment is terminated and am forced to finish sooner.
 
 At least once I get the intake back together, if I was forced I could have an ATK long block delivered here in a few days. Then I could have the car back together in a few days if I worked all day (Yes, I am slow). I want to avoid moving a project in pieces as things would get lost/ damaged, so I have to keep that in mind. Hopefully I can remain 1 step ahead of my employment situation!
 
 The plan now is to just work on sub-assemblies when I have the time. I am going to have the heads done and ready to go, this will allow me to buy a short block if I find one. Other than that, I will just be cleaning everything up and getting it ready to install once the engine situation is worked out.
 
 

Holy crap that is one fried piston! It is worse than the one I keep on my desk at work...
 

 Funny you say that, at work I have the snout from a broken crank that I replaced probably ten years ago!

[bryes]

I just now ordered the 42 lb injector kit from TT, along with a hotwire kit, adjustable fuel pressure regulator and a scanmaster. I think I was able to successfully "launder" some money from the budget over the past several months, so hopefully this transaction will fly under the radar of the evil female "auditor" who I am sure by now is wondering what these car parts are doing in her living room and when, if ever,  will I get this piece of crap back together!

[Steve Wood]

been there, done that, got the t shirts to prove it...altho they look more like scars

[bryes]

Although I am still in a holding pattern on the short-block, I have decided to have the my stock heads rebuilt now. I am going to try to drop them off in Ohio this weekend, then pick them up mid-July. I have already bought the new valve springs (cc 980s), so now  I need to worry about valves.

My plan is to have the oem valves, especially the exhaust,  reconditioned if possible. After doing research on the issue it is my impression that the Inconel stock exhaust valves are  superior to all but the most expensive aftermarket pieces. Unfortunately, it is likely that at least one of my exhaust valves is trash. After keeping an eye on the boards lately, I haven't seen any sets of NOS or good used oem exhaust valves, so I was hoping to find the next best alternative, unless that alternative is just to wait until a stock set shows up.


From what I have found so far it seems that ferrara "severe duty" stainless valves are the way to go. But that was an older post, so if someone wouldn't mind pointing me in the right direction for guidance, I'd appreciate it.

As always thanks in advance.

Bryes

[Charlief1]

If you want stock replacement valves you can get the exhaust for an 89 TTA and they won't have the step i them like the stock ones. You'll need to have the valve guides cut down for seals but I prefer them over the stock ones. The "severe duty" ones are larger and sometimes shrould the valve if you're building a 3.8 block rather than a 4.1.

[ULYCYC]

New to this thread and won't hit you with more detailed advice to confuse you.  Just to make the end cost a little clearer, after sitting 10 years it all has to be rebuilt or replaced.  This goes for brake system, fuel system, all chassis rubber, turbo, wiring eaten by animals, all vacuum lines and anything powered like antenna, seats or windows.  Looking at your engine pics these is no shortcut or cheap build. The block and crank, intake and bare heads may be all that can be reused. Stand back and look at all the costs. It may be cheaper to use it as a parts car and buy something running and looks good for $7-$10K.  To do your car right expect to go over that.

[Just a Six?]

I agree with Ed 100% Sounds like your going to have your hands full & your wallet emptied!
 
If it helps I have a few sets of stock heads here so if you need some good used valves just pay for the postage. I could also deliver to Ohio for the BPG event 1st week of August. I'll even throw in a couple Ice Cold Canadian Beers!! 

[bryes]

New to this thread and won't hit you with more detailed advice to confuse you.  Just to make the end cost a little

clearer, after sitting 10 years it all has to be rebuilt or replaced.  This goes for brake system, fuel system, all

chassis rubber, turbo, wiring eaten by animals, all vacuum lines and anything powered like antenna, seats or windows. 

Looking at your engine pics these is no shortcut or cheap build. The block and crank, intake and bare heads may be all

that can be reused. Stand back and look at all the costs. It may be cheaper to use it as a parts car and buy something

running and looks good for $7-$10K.  To do your car right expect to go over that.

ULYCYC, welcome to the thread.  I do appreciate the heads up!


When I bought the car, I thought that I'd look into the motor "real quick", and if it wasn't something relatively simple, it would become a parts car or whatever. Now, if I stand back and look at it objectively, I realize that this project has crossed over that threshold, and if I continue down this path, I'll likely, like you mentioned, have more money in it than it's worth. But for some unexplained reason, I just feel myself putting on my work clothes... walking out to that shed...   I think your post may well be one of those rare nuggets of wisdom that one day I'll look back at and think to myself,
"why the heck didn't I listen to him!"

One advantage this way is that I don't have to come up with a large chunk of cash all at once (much easier to keep a large # of smaller purchases on the DL!). Also, I have learned a lot of new things met some new people who offer to send me parts and buy me canadian beers. So maybe that makes up the difference!

For now at least I am going to work on putting together the heads, and we'll see what happens. I am not in too deep yet, so I can always change my mind depending on what happens.

If it helps I have a few sets of stock heads here so if you need some good used valves just pay for the postage. I could also deliver to Ohio for the BPG event 1st week of August. I'll even throw in a couple Ice Cold Canadian Beers!! 

Thanks a lot for the offer/s Super Six, you rock! Unfortunately, I won't be in Ohio the 1st of August , so I'll have to  pass on the beer. I just might take you up on the valve/s though.

Now about those valves, I'd like a better idea of how many I'll need: 

Any chance that this valve can be resurfaced?
 

[Just a Six?]

I'm NO Pro on valves but if you run a brass wheel over them to get rid of the carbon I'm sure you will have a much better idea.