ECM Bus

[I Love Factory ECMs]

 I think i have the scantool log's small enough now for load..(Nope,LOL,ok try number 3, the charm?) the joy's of conversions... lol
I'm no expert Tuner,Auto Detailer ,Yes, I set out to pay for a tune job done,an then Learn it All from there out.I Never got the chance! I was just geting the lap top running with the car an scanned this log,the combination to a T i can't recall exactly,but it dyno 610hp an 533rwhp If my Tuner screwed me so be it, i got my cash back, I just want to know the Exact Reason it'd go from Rocketship to Snail...3 different tunes,combo's,inj,chips, but all factory type ECM. My fresh build's virgin fire up's in week or two!!
My issues are solved now with XFI unit. But other's could hit the wall i did an benefit before hand,I'm all about the Car,not the people owning them...they die off but the Car Lives!
Enjoy!

[earlbrown]

I'd like to meet the attorney that got you $30,000

[I Love Factory ECMs]

I'd like to meet the attorney that got you $30,000

She cute with large Mammery's,heh,Thats what i settled for....of coruse owning a classic car helps..8^)

[dennisL]

All I can say is that there is nothing programmed into the stock ecm that would make it lay down on the top end.  If the stock ecm was the cause of your problem it would be because it has an 8-bit  processor with a tiny amount of memory and is slow by today's standard.  There is no precision on the math functions.  The processor doesn't understand fractions so it rounds down and this becomes more critical as the rpm goes up.  If you compared this ecm to a PC it would be the equivalent of a Radio Shack TRS-80.  (You younger folks can Google it if necessary.)


I'm not sure what happened with your car.  Perhaps you did discover the limits of an engine management system that absolutely was not designed for a 500 - 600 hp engine.

[Steve Wood]

Hopefully Bruce will visit you tonight and give you an update on the 8 bit ecm as he demonstrated several years ago that the factory ecm could keep up with a lot more than 500-600 hp  

I believe a couple of guys in the past went into the 8's on the stock ecm without any problems.

Currently Walt Judy,running in TSM very successfully, is running a stock ecm with an ME chip. Steve Y is using fuel curves checked by Bruce to provide the fueling.  Not only has Walt been quite successful, he is running 9.3-9.5 in the 140-150 mph range which is a lot more hp than 500-600.

As Paul stated in one of these threads, the modern systems make it very easy to tweak parameters run to run, or after component changes without going thru the hassle of burning new chips as well as offer many minor tweaks that may offer more consistency during the day as ambient conditions change when used by a savvy tuner.

Way too many of us are making plenty of hp to blame failure on the stock ecm.  I suspect one could statistically demonstrate that there are more failures incurred on aftermarket fuel management systems than by the stock ecm, but, that would be less than the whole story, of course

[I Love Factory ECMs]

I've read some fast car's on stock ECM,yes,most in the 9's now are on Aftermarket system though if read Sig's. I'm sure a computer engineer could do what ever they like to factroy Ecm. Me i don't have those resources or room to work on car. So i "thought" i did the next best thing,  Find the closet to me professional Buick tuner. (KDK automotive,you can look him up,or might know him already)  get chip from a respective maker, (Eric's which KDK use's anyway). I had wanted an DFI system or Bigstuff3 before any this, But KDK said "You can use the the stock ECM with Translator plus', So i listened an went that route.... When i picked up my car the first time, Was a RocketShip,Dynoed 533rwhp all numbers matching motor... (Dyno sheet attached below) Pull of 10 second car easy. But 1/8 mile it was done. I told KDK the problem an him an Eric an Cotton Perf. (which was having the same issue on there car,he even sent the tranny out his car an it was put in mine to test,Same Issue though) I tried 2 other full builds to try have  the Pro's fix the issue. They couldn't.....(or Wouldn't ) But don't think people want bad name.......onl y read a duty cycle issue i guess so far,does the chip or the ECM control that an how's it adjusted (short version's fine) the Scantool run post above still show's 530hp though. Is what happened was the tuners going for HP on dyno but in Real World driving with wind an rolling resitance the car needed more then what a dyno run could tune??? Even them testing the car didn't like it over 100mph.  Here's the dyno sheet so you can the rest the info...I going to learn my car i just need base line to go from first,I learned Astrophotraphy in 3 years (while my car was in the shop), Tuning be easy if i could get a starting base that'd atleast run one 1/4 mile...8^)

[Steve Wood]

As I stated, your experience is different from what the vast majority of us have experienced over the past 25 years.  There are certain vendors that tend to tell people the stock ecm is no good, often on 12-14 second cars, because they like to sell aftermarket systems at a good profit and then tie up the tuning for years to come at a further good profit when compared to selling a programmable chip for a few bucks.

There is absolutely nothing in the stock ecm that shuts the fuel off at 100 mph or 600 hp.  You can tell yourself anything you wish, but reality is different.

As Paul stated earlier, it is much easier to tweak an aftermarket system to adjust for ambient conditions and that may be more important on a Nine second car than on a run of the mill 600 hp car if the user understands tuner.  If not, you can always show up at the tract with a hired gun to do it for you.

[PacecarTA]

those dyno sheets show me typical dyno mentality

get the highest  hp number and to do that they run it lean
you had 23.4psi  with 12.1:1 AF  !! 
news flash  no fng way that tune would hold up at the track in a 3600+lb buick

i dont dyno because i could give a crap less about the number
work the tune up on the 1320, and that doesnt mean run 1/4 first tme out it means dial it down and work it up while looking at your data and watching everything you can while your doing it and lift at any sign of trouble

and typical with tt chips he brings the fuel up over 5000 as you can see you didnt go lean, your AF dropped to 11.0 ..thats richer   but on 93 alky real world 1320 i would be targeting even richer than that

[I Love Factory ECMs]

As I stated, your experience is different from what the vast majority of us have experienced over the past 25 years.  There are certain vendors that tend to tell people the stock ecm is no good, often on 12-14 second cars, because they like to sell aftermarket systems at a good profit and then tie up the tuning for years to come at a further good profit when compared to selling a programmable chip for a few bucks.

There is absolutely nothing in the stock ecm that shuts the fuel off at 100 mph or 600 hp.  You can tell yourself anything you wish, but reality is different.

As Paul stated earlier, it is much easier to tweak an aftermarket system to adjust for ambient conditions and that may be more important on a Nine second car than on a run of the mill 600 hp car if the user understands tuner.  If not, you can always show up at the tract with a hired gun to do it for you.

That's where i'm at now,I see Cal Hartline this Tues. So... my last "hired gun's" ,KDK an Eric failed there task? KDK is die hard stock ECM user. (plus he said him an one his tune guy's said they couldn't figure out XFI programing an was to difficult) So... i went there route.the stock ECM way, total opposite of what you stated, got me 3 wasted motors,4 if count the one that went with me an Cal on another dyno an shop. I have hooked up to the XFI myself, i've read the table chart's,I see exactly how it works so from now on, I won't be having issues, an haven't since the XFI install. I just should went the aftermarket way at the start,no conflicts between tuner,chip maker an factory equipment issues

[Steve Wood]

There are no factory issues....that is a created reality to explain the problems....Yo u may be the unlucky type that could possibly draw three bad ecms in a row, but, no one else will ever believe that.

I do hope you have better luck this time