IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: Steve Wood on October 26 2015, 10:17:25 PM
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Several months ago, someone wrote to me that his car would not start. He said he had no spark but had injector pulse. Said he had been thru the trouble tree on my site and everything checked out.
I had him go thru the usual stuff, try different modules, crank sensors, trace every wire back to the ecm, try a different ecm, etc. This has been going on for several months now. I told him more than once that except for having an injector pulse, it seemed like the cam sensor was bad. Several times, I asked him if the wheel was turning on the cam sensor when cranking. Asked him to verify the wheel was pinned and not broken loose.
The other day, he said he put a scope on the cam sensor and the voltage was not changing when he cranked it...now how did he miss that when he used a meter and went thru the trouble tree. Tree also tells you to verify the wheel is turning...said he remembered me telling him to check the wheel but he guessed he overlooked it.
So you gotta wonder how you can have injector pulse if the cam sensor is not turning....... I know I told him to put a noid lite on it and to check the voltage drop on the sensor output when cranking it..thought maybe the cap was bad even tho he said he had pulse.
Anyway, the oil pump is locked up and the roll pin in the gear is sheared off. Pump is probably crammed with nylon or worse.
This problem should have been diagnosed in about 30 minutes if you are like me and don't know where your noid lights are..but just using a voltmeter would have done the same in five.
Makes me want to cry.
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wonder if most people's problems are them just skipping trouble shooting steps
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1. People don't/won't listen
2. People won't/don't read/follow directions
3. I quit working on Buicks 2 to 3 years ago for the above 2 reasons
4. I send all these guys to Dan...and let him deal with the headaches
5. I work on Dans car and mine...and that's it.
6. Steve Wood has forgotten more about these cars than most will ever learn. If you don't wanna listen to him...and do the checks he asks...then you aren't interested in correcting the issue(s) you have with your TR.
7. This one kills me. I see peoples sigs where they've spent a small fortune on cool guy parts for they're TR...but can't justify spending a couple of bucks on PL...but ask for help with tuning...or they hit the track and guess on their fueling.
8. On more than one occasion I've told the guy to sell his TR...and buy a car with a carb and distributor.
9. My top picks of people who know their shit. Steve Wood...Bison.. .PACECARTA...D usty Bradford.
10. I need a drink.
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I fall into 7&10, and 6 is right on the money!!!
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Not sure I am in those guys class, but, I do tend to understand how they work. I started trying to figure this car out in the summer...Kept saying check the cam sensor even tho it has injector pulse...still don't know how this was possible, and somehow, I'm pretty sure it's not...but anyway, the mystery is solved...now he has to figure out what's up with the oil pump.
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Dan and I have seen more than our fair share of clogged oil screens...and a 1/4 inch of gray bearing material on the bottom of the pan has been pretty common. The guys are out beating on these engines and paying no attention to KR. Pounds the rod bearings into tinfoil pretty quick.
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All I can say is listen to Steve. He helped me get my GN going and I cant thank him enough. It would probably be still sitting or in someone elses garage if not for his help. Thanks again for your help and patience. I owe you several!
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It's a great feeling when they fire up! Some times I get as big kick out of it as the owner
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Mine won't start. Injector pulse good according to noid light have spark by the plug out and connected to wire laid on vC making spark. I got 11v to the relay on the fender but when I jump the connector to the alternator the hot wire relay clicks but the pump didn't run. I have a new relay to try . thinking it might be pump or relay. Any thoughts?
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Ground for the relay?
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Put power to the fuel pump test connector...do es it run? If not, long jumper to the back of the car directly to the pump- does it run?
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I guess its time to did the car out of the back yard and see why it wont start. :cheers:
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You just feel like driving me crazy!
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I jumped at alternator yesterday. Relay at back clicks. I couldnt hear the one under the hood click and have another to try after work. I will hit it with a long wire at the back. Only had 8volts on the middle connector of the three connector at the back. Had 11v at the fender relay. Gonna bring the trailer andtake it home after work. Thanks for all the suggestions.
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8 volts says there is either a bad ground or a bad relay, I think....
I don't like the aftermarket hot wires with the relay at the back...I would rather have it all together under the hood for troubleshootin g :)
I tend to do gorilla troubleshootin g. Jump straight to the worst potential problem so I can get mad fast when I find the pump is bad, or merely aggravated when the problem is in the middle
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You just feel like driving me crazy!
Thats my job
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be happy it's a short trip!
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Thats what my mom always told me.
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You just feel like driving me crazy!
Too late?
:O
:rofl:
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I am under the impression that the pump should run when you jump the black wire to the alternator power on the back. I've gotten it home like that before. When I jump it all that happens it the relay at the back clicks. This leads me to think the pump is bad. I will drop the tank and see. Gonna go homeand get the trailer and take it home.
Got laid off today so changing jobs wasn't such a great idea. funny they would hire people and lay them off three weeks later. Oh well keep moving forward.
Thanks for all the help I'm not really thinking straight so it is very helpfull
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I am under the impression that the pump should run when you jump the black wire to the alternator power on the back. I've gotten it home like that before. When I jump it all that happens it the relay at the back clicks. This leads me to think the pump is bad. I will drop the tank and see. Gonna go homeand get the trailer and take it home.
Got laid off today so changing jobs wasn't such a great idea. funny they would hire people and lay them off three weeks later. Oh well keep moving forward.
Thanks for all the help I'm not really thinking straight so it is very helpfull
Damn tha luck! When it rains it pours... You need anything, I mean anything, you gimme a shout!
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hope something deserving comes their way
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I am under the impression that the pump should run when you jump the black wire to the alternator power on the back. I've gotten it home like that before. When I jump it all that happens it the relay at the back clicks. This leads me to think the pump is bad. I will drop the tank and see. Gonna go homeand get the trailer and take it home.
Got laid off today so changing jobs wasn't such a great idea. funny they would hire people and lay them off three weeks later. Oh well keep moving forward.
Thanks for all the help I'm not really thinking straight so it is very helpfull
Might need to see about that fuel pump if you still have it
Might need to see about that fuel pump you had if you still have it. Gonna put it on the trailer tomorrow and bring it home
Damn tha luck! When it rains it pours... You need anything, I mean anything, you gimme a shout!
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I've got a few to choose from. Racetronix 340, stock style 255 and a DW300. Let me know.
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hope something deserving comes their way
A couple of things come to mind.
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Alright. Phone bricked last tues so i had to buy a pair as the wife was having trouble getting hers to charge. Got a pair of Nokia windows phones for $42.99 each shipped to the house. All new to me as I've always had android. Couldn't find one in this price range.
Any way, I brought the trailer yesterday. Pulled the car up on there and for giggles spun it over. Surprisingly it started. It had dried out so it must be a poor connection. Working today and lay off starts tomorrow so we will drop the tank and see what I can see for poor connection or maybe it is those zip ties turned out and I need a ss hose clamp.
Thanks again for the suggestions.
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Lost all my contacts and such with the switch to the new phone . Though I did see about rebuilding the music with some app from the provider.
I guess the old original hanger has a problem. The bulkhead connector on the hanger had pretty small connections to handle the electricity to the pump. Might look for something at caspers to replace the stock stuff. I know on our suburban I chased probs with the pump not working very similar to this as when it was wet or humid or raining the pump wouldn't work on it. That got to working reliably when I replaced the connector on the wiring at the tank as it was burned looking. Hoping something stands out on the car when I drop the tank. Wife none to pleased with my toy. Just getting old I told her and way better than a payment.
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Does the point that had 8 volts now read correctly? If you want it to be reliable, make up a long jumper you can use if it quits again. That way, it won't fail again :D
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I'm at work but that will be on the check list for tonight.
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http://www.racetronix.biz/mmWEBSTORE/Images/bcws-g77.jpg (http://www.racetronix.biz/mmWEBSTORE/Images/bcws-g77.jpg)(http://www.racetronix.biz/mmWEBSTORE/Images/bcws-g77.jpg)
I'm thinking maybe where this connects might be due for replacement as those pins are dinky and it was a connector like this that I replaced that made our suburban reliable(suburban connector was all black and burned looking). Is there a cheaper place to get this connector? $50 seems like a lot but I guess it comes with the wires too. I'll head over to caspers and see what they have. Anyone have another place to look? TIA
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Rich...Racetro nix is here in Toronto. Shipping will likely be more...and it'll take longer to get to you. Try John at Caspers for what you need.
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Sounds good. Up side I got called into work tonight. Good sign . One if the guys told me that there are guys who get more hours when laid off than they do in their bid as they always come in when called. Hopefully that will be me .
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http://m.oreillyauto.com/mt/www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/PFP0/Z11004/03952.oap?year=1987&make=Buick&model=Regal&vi=5000098&ck=Search_fuel+pump+harness_5000098_676&keyword=fuel+pump+harness (http://m.oreillyauto.com/mt/www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/PFP0/Z11004/03952.oap?year=1987&make=Buick&model=Regal&vi=5000098&ck=Search_fuel+pump+harness_5000098_676&keyword=fuel+pump+harness)
I picked up this and am hoping to drop the tank tomorrow. Before I do I will get some voltage readings with a charged up battery before we take it apart.
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Looks like reasonably good wire ETFE as long as the gauges match.
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It even sez made in USA on the package. Doesn't say with global components but who knows. I do remember the pins in there are small and if corroded I can see how the moisture keeps the electric out.
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(http://s25.postimg.org/nnyr1yhbz/WP_20151110_001.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/xy161777f/full/)
Got the tank down. Pin at the bulkhead corroded and wire insulation melted. I guess it got hot. I cleaned the pins and replaced the connector and melted wire with a piece from the kit. Kit also had the plastic connector holder and wire retainer piece so I put them in too. While we were in there I took the advice of I think mike and added a ss worm clamp to hold the pump to the hanger.
(http://s25.postimg.org/rydexjmf3/WP_20151112_003.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/drxo2bbjv/full/)
(http://s25.postimg.org/j4migfzgf/WP_20151112_002.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/rzncqyo8r/full/)
Put it back together and started her up. Before we had 8v on the center pin of the connector. This time we had 6v. Either way it ran so I can hit a couple of interviews in the am. Have another next wed and put in several more applications today. Can't say job search is going well but there are lots of jobs advertized. Time will tell.
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Well, it went to the appointment for a driving test in the am but on the way back it cut out a couple times which wasn't what I wanted. So back down the tank came as I'm kind of getting the run around. Myself and four others were there for the driving test but due to the previous night's inclement weather several of the planes were late and all those qualified to give driving evaluation were called upon to deliver the late air shipments so we were told to come back this am. Me without a job so I get to drive back over there this am to do the driving and if successful having to go for a dot physical. Car must run. I have a used hanger with what looked like a better bulk head connector than the original but the hanger didn't look good so removal and swap was undertaken.
(http://s25.postimg.org/7377ge727/WP_20151117_002.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ne7bcpjjv/full/)
image ru (http://postimage.org/)
Hanger notice the rust on the outside feed tubes. The inside of the tubes didn't look good either.
(http://s25.postimg.org/t52jnjxvj/WP_20151117_008.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/fbe6yi5a3/full/)
Original bulkhead. Notice the black at the point where the metal goes into the plastic
Not what I want to see.
(http://s25.postimg.org/iomfl7yv3/WP_20151117_009.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/r6vvpk5dn/full/)
Bulkhead from the crusty hanger. Wish I could swap the fuel level part in too.
(http://s25.postimg.org/vri24hp33/WP_20151117_006.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ridc2bltn/full/)
Tore up the retaining clips so of you plan this out you will have new clips on hand for reassembly.
(http://s25.postimg.org/6f3eukenz/WP_20151117_005.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/xpoq2hhkr/full/)
Original plug was to be reused as the plug for the crusty on was missing the latch. So i dug the old connectors out. It was kind of brittle so some fell off. Latch still on so I went with it.
(http://s25.postimg.org/m4j58ilhb/WP_20151117_016.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/xtn4whcfv/full/)
I want to strongly suggest the use of jack stands to support your vehicle while working under neath. I can't think of a worse thing than have your loved ones find you crushed under your vehicle that fell on you. I work in the drive way. It sux but it is all I know. I'll have to direct a tb.comer over to see what a 255/60-15 looks like on a seven inch wheel. I think it looks good.
(http://s25.postimg.org/rc48cz22n/WP_20151117_015.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/rovmj5kcb/full/)
Another thing I found is a little stack of wood sure helps steady the tank and sloshing fuel and keep it from falling off the jack. Sure helps when removing and installing the tank lines.
(http://s25.postimg.org/fpk4buerj/WP_20151117_011.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/vb1fvsqpn/full/)
Just slide your stack of wood back with your jack and you can spin that retaining ring out and back on and not have to take the tank off the jack. Then slide it all back under and jack it up a bit and add a piece of wood or two and reconnect the lines. Much easier than trying to balance the tank and sloshing fuel on the jack itself while wrestling the lines on and off.
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Fingers crossed for the job search...and the car. :)
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Went back today and took the driving test and they sent me for a dot physical. I told them I had just had one in June or so but they said gotta be one of ours. So off I went, passed that and got a new two year card. Went back got a pair of uniforms and instructions to be there tomorrow at 7:45 for orientation. It is seasonal so it only goes to Jan 15 but the car ran good over to the physical and back to the house. So that appears to be handled for now. We will see.
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Good new on both fronts. Texas has seasons? :)
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Pretty much we have summer and not summer as far aa climate seasons. The just is with UPS so it is for the end of the year rush. They did say after the work ends Jan 15 anyone who did good work would be offered package handler positions with the opportunity to be a fill in driver. We will see what happens. I might be a package handler if nothing else comes up.
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Package handler for UPS? Alrighty then!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q6_9A90cUk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q6_9A90cUk)
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Let's hope it all goes well!
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Glad for you Rich! If you would like to try another sender, I have a stock one sitting in a box. Let me know and I'll drive up. May be going to Sanger this Saturday to drop off my tranny at Jake's. I could stop by then if you like
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I think I have it under control. I do appreciate the offer. I will be at orientation for this new job sat or I'd ask you to stop by and we could grill burgers or something. Maybe when you go pick it up. We are just off 20 near the parks mall.