IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: Super Gnat on November 04 2012, 08:52:49 PM
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Recently picked up an 87 GN. You can see some mods and info here. http://www.ihadav8.com/forum/index.php?topic=3778.0 (http://www.ihadav8.com/forum/index.php?topic=3778.0)
The previous owner gave me a new fuel pressure regulator that i need to have installed. Hopefully that will help with some of the issues im having.
I cant get the car to build boost at the line or spin the tires for that matter. I hold the brake and hit the gas and it wont rev past like 2200 rpm. Sometimes while cruising at 30mph and then going WOT, the thing will stall and sputter, other times, the turbo will spool and away i go. Also, my oil pressure has been all over the place, as low as 20 psi and as high as 80 when WOT. Dunno if thats normal.
It seems like the turbo isn't spooling very fast either. I have it set to 15 psi. When i'm WOT and i get to 15 psi, after a moment it drops to 10 and wont go any higher.
The previous owner also told me that his wife had driven it when he had the boost turned way up (22psi) and well.... it wasn't pretty. He had it turned up for some passes at the strip but his wife took it out on the freeway before he turned it back down. She threw it down to third to pass a vehicle and when the boost maxed out, the stock motor couldn't hang. Since that happened he turned the boost down to 10 psi and kept it there til he sold it to me.
My next step is to take it in for a tune up and get the regulator installed. Being in SoCal, it looks like it will end up in the hands of turbo Lou, unless anyone knows of a capable mechanic closer to Los Angeles. The heads have never been off the motor so if i need to do a serious overhaul then so be it. I want this car to perform like i know it can and last for another 25 years. Im willing to spend some money on it.
Any advice or words of wisdom? What do i need to replace or double check from the unfortunate rattle at 22psi? What would you do?
Thanks!
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Scanmaster... right i forgot i had one, Ill plug it in and see what codes it gives me. Stand by.
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Sounds like you might have some severe engine damage.
I'd park it until you can run some tests and find out exactly what your hard parts are doing.
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Yep, I would say blown head gaskets, wiped bearings, damaged turbo.....but, the best would be to take it to an experienced Buick shop on a trailer
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Yea it for sure will need to see a good mechanic. It has no problem starting and idling and grocery style driving but thats as far as the good news goes. There isn't any weird mechanical noises but its definitely acting erratic.
As i was told the story about 22psi, I kept imagining the heads blowing off the motor and then the phone call to the husband that followed.
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These things can run 22#s all day long if tuned right and mechanically sound.
Normally I'd recommend draining all the antifreeze out if you're going to continue to abuse the car like that, but freezing temps are around the corner....
You really need to park the car. The scanmaster can't tell you about cam lobes, head gasket seal, leak down, or cracked pistons.
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they can run 22# all day long on race gas, or alky injection. On Cali 91 octane gas and an obsolete ATR chip, it can safely run about 10# of boost. From the description you provided, it appears the engine is wasted and needs a total rebuild. Hope that is not the case, but, don't be surprised if you drive over the crank on the way to the store
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I hear ya, car is parked.
The ATR chip is getting replaced. I called Turbo Lou to let him know ill be seeing him soon. We will prolly end up pulling the heads and having a look.
Pulled the radiator today for a flush and rod. The antifreeze in the reservoir had tons of gunk in it.
@ Earl, I havent been abusing it. I rescued it from a garage where it surely would have rotted away! And it rarely freezes here in Los Angeles.
As it turns out, I have a scan tool, not a scanmaster. All of the sudden i have a lot on the to do/buy list.
I don't mind rebuilding the motor if it needs it. My wallet might but i don't. :rock: Its worth it!
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Ok i guess trying to do a burn out with it as soon as i got it is abuse.....
Anyway i found an old receipt for green stripe injectors which if im not mistaken means that it is 30-32 pound injectors. Less than the 40 pounds that i originally thought were on it. Day 2 of owning the car, alright!
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just ordered a scanmaster 2.1 and some TT chips.....
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Not necessarily... we called the 42.5# injectors green stripes as well even tho later they were marked with different colors and different parts number. Parts number is the only meaningful ID
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just ordered a scanmaster 2.1 and some TT chips.....
Send the useless ScanMaster back and get the PowerLogger. What is this a flashback to the year 2000?
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Not necessarily... we called the 42.5# injectors green stripes as well even tho later they were marked with different colors and different parts number. Parts number is the only meaningful ID
good to know thanks i think they were purchased from kirbans part number says 1544, same that kirban lists.
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just ordered a scanmaster 2.1 and some TT chips.....
Send the useless ScanMaster back and get the PowerLogger. What is this a flashback to the year 2000?
hahahhahah.
care to share your reasoning?
I think the scanmaster will be just fine until i gain more knowledge of this car.
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I believe you need both as Scanmaster provides constant monitoring of the O2s and timing retard...of course, if it is in the trunk you should have saved your money.
Powerlogger allows you to log the data stream and see many more parameters, but, more importantly, it allows you, plus anyone you wish to get help from, to see the data all at the same time so you can see if your fuel pressure drop occurs at the same time that the voltage dropped due to a tired alternator that could not handle the load the electrical sysem was putting on it.
Or it can show that the blms and o2s are acting in proper relationship to one another, or if the timing retard that was indicated happened on a shift, at launch, or if it appears to be related to detonation, too rich a mixture, or a failing fuel pump.
Experienced guys have run nines on Scanmasters. Beginners have blown up engines because they did not understand what they were looking at and could not show a data log to some one that could.
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Ok i guess trying to do a burn out with it as soon as i got it is abuse.....
Burnouts are fine. There's not much you can do in life (with your pants on) more enjoyable than a burnout.
If you're driving the car with antifreeze in the oil, leaky head gaskets, wiping cam lobe and/or boost control issues... then that's abuse.
You need to get any electronics you have installed pronto... and from your opening posts I'd seriously do every diagnostic that can be done on the long block. Most importantly, a leak down test, compression test, and figure out what the oil pressure is doing.
If that can be taken care of with out pulling the engine, there's a laundry list of preventative maintenance that will need to be installed.
I hate to sound like a Debbie Downer but these cars like to make new owners jump through SHITLOADS of hoops before they stop acting like jerks. After that, they're kinda fun to drive.
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I believe you need both as Scanmaster provides constant monitoring of the O2s and timing retard...of course, if it is in the trunk you should have saved your money.
as it turns out it was a scan tool.... i was confused. still learning but i think im making some progress. i took the radiator out and had it flushed today, it was pretty filthy. i picked up a fuel pressure gauge and put on an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. set it to 45psi then put the line back on and watched the psi drop by like 8.
couldnt resist, i took it for a spin. previously when cruising at 30 mph and then going WOT, it would bog bad and not rev, thats no longer happening. the turbo spooled fast and held at 15 psi until i let off around 80mph. is it possible that my stock fuel pressure regulator couldnt keep up with the larger injectors, bigger fuel pump, and hot wire kit, and thats what was causing some of my symptoms. now i have to get rid of this old ATR chip.
still cant do a burn out or build boost at the line. TT chips and scanmaster will be here thursday.
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Ok i guess trying to do a burn out with it as soon as i got it is abuse.....
Burnouts are fine. There's not much you can do in life (with your pants on) more enjoyable than a burnout.
If you're driving the car with antifreeze in the oil, leaky head gaskets, wiping cam lobe and/or boost control issues... then that's abuse.
You need to get any electronics you have installed pronto... and from your opening posts I'd seriously do every diagnostic that can be done on the long block. Most importantly, a leak down test, compression test, and figure out what the oil pressure is doing.
If that can be taken care of with out pulling the engine, there's a laundry list of preventative maintenance that will need to be installed.
I hate to sound like a Debbie Downer but these cars like to make new owners jump through SHITLOADS of hoops before they stop acting like jerks. After that, they're kinda fun to drive.
:cheers: there is light at the end of the tunnel. ill get there eventually.
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Am i missing something..... ive been reading a bunch of posts talking about how these cars launch best around 4 or 5 psi.
Do i need something special to build boost at the line? I cant just hold the brakes and give it some throttle?
Can anyone point me to some good reading material or tell me how its accomplished.. .. Could be my tired motor or crappy chip?
and yes i feel dumb for asking :rolleyes;
thanks
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"still cant do a burn out or build boost at the line. TT chips and scanmaster will be here thursday".
May want to have someone knowledgable pull your tranny inspection cover and have a look at your torque convertor to verify what you have installed. FYI, the stock factory torque convertors will have D5 stamped all around the circumference of the torque convertor. These stalled out at around 2,000 - 2,200rpm.
I only say this cause I always had problems doing burnouts with my car too and spool up was on the slow side of lazy. Last winter when I was installing a new oil pan and gskt + installing a new rear main seal....I had a close look at my torque convertor....to my surprise it did not say anything on the outside.....it would appear that one of the previous owners must have installed a 200R-4 convertor out of a NA car.
This explains why I couldn't do a burn out very well and the slow spool up. The NA convertors stall at around 1,600rpm which is what I was finding.
Not sure if this could be your problem , but have someone check to verify before you end up pulling all your hair out.
Just sayin!
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This explains why I couldn't do a burn out very well and the slow spool up. The NA convertors stall at around 1,600rpm which is what I was finding.
Yes that is exactly the rpm that it lets me rev to and then nothing... I think you may be right. Thanks for the lead, i will look into it.
I called the previous owner and he never changed it. To his knowledge it is stock, but he didnt own it until 1990 so....
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Car passed CA smog with the TT classic chip installed. It feels like its running better.
I think ill have time tomorrow to install the scanmaster and see what that tells me.
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Scanmaster numbers at idle after warming up
02 milivolts - 007 to 720
AF - 04
L8 - 34
Bat - 13.8
Int. - 128
BL - 131
CLt - 170
Ats - 87
R - 775
Tps - .42
Iac - 09
cc - 05 to 250
mal - 00
Saw the knock hit 4.7 when under boost.
Any thoughts?
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And these numbers plus the KR is with the TT chip installed?
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And these numbers plus the KR is with the TT chip installed?
Correct
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i didnt see in your post, but do you have a stock fuel pump? Is your FP rising with boost as it should? What did the O2's show during your run?
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nevermind. i overlooked the fact that you do have an aftermarket FP with a hotwire kit. Just need to know the O2 count at WOT. It'll tell whether the car is running lean or rich, and if either, that could potentially explain the KR. Im seeing KR too, and im still tracking it
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nevermind. i overlooked the fact that you do have an aftermarket FP with a hotwire kit.
Actually you were thinking correctly the first time, Phil. "New parts" don't automatically equal "working parts". Especially in this day and age with crappy QC and chinese knockoffs.
Always verify things are doing what they're supposed to be doing. (X100 on these finicky ass cars!)