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Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: phil_long on October 06 2012, 05:19:42 PM

Title: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 06 2012, 05:19:42 PM
Lol. Just did this today.  The job was really a breeze.  Got everything back together and the car running again.  Only ran into a few hiccups(normal for me). First thing is, the throttle seems to be sticking.  I reset the TPS to .42. Whenever im driving, the car will run fine, then out of no where the it starts to slightly pull on its on.  I also accidentally pushed in that one button(i believe its the TV cable) and now my shifts extremely early. Just need to iron those things out so i can find more things to work on.  :D
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 06 2012, 05:22:48 PM
Im going to re-adjust the TV cable based on Steve's site, but the sticking of the throttle is the main culprit
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: Steve Wood on October 06 2012, 06:00:08 PM
You are the man!  We gonna have you graduating into a full blown Buck expert pretty soon! :cheers:
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 06 2012, 10:16:43 PM
Heck yeah!!! Lol. Now, what do i do about the sticking throttle? Lol
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: Steve Wood on October 06 2012, 10:35:04 PM
If it still sticks after adjusting the tvs, check the cables where the attached to the throttle lever to see if something is binding there...that would be my first suggestion

Does it bind when you disconnect all three cables?  If not, attach one at a time and check each time to see if there is a problem
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 07 2012, 12:27:52 PM
Will do. Hopefully it was just the TV cable because it was adjusted completely wrong. Keep ya posted.
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: Steve Wood on October 07 2012, 01:29:55 PM
Don't drive the car until it is adjusted!
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 07 2012, 08:23:08 PM
Got the TV cable adjusted the way Vortex instructed. It seems that my cruise control cable was responsible for sticking.
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: Steve Wood on October 07 2012, 08:53:05 PM
so, how does 17 psi feel?

Can you tell if the car is running more smoothly in regular driving?
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 08 2012, 03:28:33 PM
Lol.  Not sure how 17 psi feels yet. man i drive like a granny. i made it up to about 13 lbs saturday and the tires started turning over, so i just let out and said forget it.  Lol.  After re-adjusting the TV cable, the car shifting a lot more firm than what it was when i picked it up from the shop.  I havent went full throttle yet, but im afraid to. Lol. And i might have a KR issue. I think we covered that already though and said it could be the motor mount
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 08 2012, 03:30:35 PM
Also, under normal acceleration, it shifts really late IMO.  Maybe about 2200-2400? I swapped over to the scantool really late but it was around there.  I'll double check again
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 08 2012, 03:32:32 PM
The car runs great though.  Extremely smooth idle, great drivability. Seems like power at my foot. I never imagined that this car would run like this. It appears I was losing all of my power from that timing chain issue.  I'll post pics of that tonight
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: Steve Wood on October 08 2012, 03:43:16 PM
I have forgotten exactly, but mine is in third gear just before 30 mph, I think...at light throttle.  It should shift cleanly, but, not too late.  You can move the cable one notch and see if that gets it more in line.  Does it look about like mine ridgewise?

Sounds like your timing chain has been going out for awhile
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: earlbrown on October 08 2012, 09:49:37 PM
You need to go full throttle at least once to finish setting the TV cable. (engine off is OK)

If you haven't fully actuated the throttle , you might be riding around with the cable overly tightened.
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 09 2012, 12:19:12 AM
I have forgotten exactly, but mine is in third gear just before 30 mph, I think...at light throttle.  It should shift cleanly, but, not too late.  You can move the cable one notch and see if that gets it more in line.  Does it look about like mine ridgewise?

Sounds like your timing chain has been going out for awhile
posting a pic of the ridges
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 09 2012, 12:20:45 AM
You need to go full throttle at least once to finish setting the TV cable. (engine off is OK)

If you haven't fully actuated the throttle , you might be riding around with the cable overly tightened.
Well, if so, maybe i need to re-do what i did to reset it? I pushed in the button and pulled the cable back towards the firewall as far as possible, got in the car and pushed the gas pedal to the floor, and heard a click.
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 09 2012, 12:29:17 AM
tv cable setting
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 09 2012, 11:23:10 AM
According to my pic, I think this cable is out too far...
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: Steve Wood on October 09 2012, 11:32:41 AM
then press the button in and move the cable forward with your hand one notch and see if it is closer to what you expect
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: earlbrown on October 09 2012, 12:30:02 PM
Well, if so, maybe i need to re-do what i did to reset it? I pushed in the button and pulled the cable back towards the firewall as far as possible, got in the car and pushed the gas pedal to the floor, and heard a click.


You did it right.  One other thing you'll want to do is to verify that full throttle with the gas pedal is full throttle on the throttlebody. It's pretty common for the pedal to run out of travel before the blade is WOT. The fix is to put a zip tie on the cable on the gas pedal side.
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 09 2012, 12:44:40 PM
then press the button in and move the cable forward with your hand one notch and see if it is closer to what you expect
Ok
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 09 2012, 12:46:41 PM
Well, if so, maybe i need to re-do what i did to reset it? I pushed in the button and pulled the cable back towards the firewall as far as possible, got in the car and pushed the gas pedal to the floor, and heard a click.


You did it right.  One other thing you'll want to do is to verify that full throttle with the gas pedal is full throttle on the throttlebody. It's pretty common for the pedal to run out of travel before the blade is WOT. The fix is to put a zip tie on the cable on the gas pedal side.

Its funny you mention that, because I reset the TPS to .42 at idle, but the most i could get out of the WOT side was like 3.84.  I'm going to check the throttle blade to see if it is opening all the way. Another reason Im not really driving the car much.  Have so many "little" things to fix. I hope the TPS isn't bad(although easy to replace). Keep you guys posted. Thanks Earl
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: Steve Wood on October 09 2012, 02:02:41 PM
http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/basics.htm#Throttle (http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/basics.htm#Throttle) Position Sensor Adjustment

read the part about what can keep you from getting wide open throttle...it may well be the tv adjustment
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 09 2012, 05:11:25 PM
http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/basics.htm#Throttle (http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/basics.htm#Throttle) Position Sensor Adjustment

read the part about what can keep you from getting wide open throttle...it may well be the tv adjustment
Yeah, i read this last night. def plan on looking into it
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: earlbrown on October 09 2012, 09:44:39 PM


Its funny you mention that, because I reset the TPS to .42 at idle, but the most i could get out of the WOT side was like 3.84.  I'm going to check the throttle blade to see if it is opening all the way. Another reason Im not really driving the car much.  Have so many "little" things to fix. I hope the TPS isn't bad(although easy to replace). Keep you guys posted. Thanks Earl

If you need a wider spread with the TPS setting, make sure it's a far forward as possible. That makes the two pivot points non concentric so you get more degrees of rotation out of the sensor.
 If you notice actuating the TB underhood gives a higher reading than doing it with the gas pedal, you probably need a zip tie on the cable.


It's hard to remember all the goofy free stuff at once as I handled that stuff years ago.

Many moons ago, it was common practice to toss the DS floormat when racing.  Much like everything else in the Kenne Bell catalog, it was worth 2 tenths and 2MPH!  :rolleyes;
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 10 2012, 08:45:30 AM


Its funny you mention that, because I reset the TPS to .42 at idle, but the most i could get out of the WOT side was like 3.84.  I'm going to check the throttle blade to see if it is opening all the way. Another reason Im not really driving the car much.  Have so many "little" things to fix. I hope the TPS isn't bad(although easy to replace). Keep you guys posted. Thanks Earl

If you need a wider spread with the TPS setting, make sure it's a far forward as possible. That makes the two pivot points non concentric so you get more degrees of rotation out of the sensor.
 If you notice actuating the TB underhood gives a higher reading than doing it with the gas pedal, you probably need a zip tie on the cable.


It's hard to remember all the goofy free stuff at once as I handled that stuff years ago.

Many moons ago, it was common practice to toss the DS floormat when racing.  Much like everything else in the Kenne Bell catalog, it was worth 2 tenths and 2MPH!  :rolleyes;
:rofl: Thanks for tips man. They're def helping me out. Im going to be ready in no time.  Fix this TPS and replace my T-stat. Should be set after that
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: Steve Wood on October 10 2012, 09:32:48 AM
so the car is still getting to 200 with the new chip and the fan coming on earlier?
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 10 2012, 01:36:01 PM
so the car is still getting to 200 with the new chip and the fan coming on earlier?
Lol. Yes. Its pissing me off because the temps now will drop down to about 187 at idle, but the T-stat closes.   :x
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: Steve Wood on October 10 2012, 01:48:13 PM
not sure what that problem is..might be a sticky thermostat
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 10 2012, 02:46:29 PM
That's what I was thinking. Hey, what does drilling a hole in the T-Stat do?
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: Just a Six? on October 10 2012, 02:56:12 PM
Not an awful lot since the housing that holds it to the engine blocks 80% of the hole drilled. Try to get it as close to the centre as possible & make sure the hole is pointed at the Top when installed. I put a couple holes in one stat but my car runs cool with the recored stock rad & dual fans so I can't say how well it worked? At very least it will allow the steam out & maybe helps with air in the system? 
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: Steve Wood on October 10 2012, 03:19:52 PM
That's what I was thinking. Hey, what does drilling a hole in the T-Stat do?

In theory, it lets air escape the block so the block is fully filled with coolant.  In practice, it might make it a bit faster but after a couple of warm/cool off cycles, it should purged into the coolant reservoir anyway.

Hole should be positioned at the top as David said.  I used to drill them, but after looking how the water outlet blocks the hole, I figured it was mostly a waste of time with these small thermostats

No more than a couple of 1/16" holes...or the car will not warm up in the winter if there is enough room for flow...
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 10 2012, 04:47:30 PM
Cool, one less thing I have to do. I do want to be sure that local parts store DO sell 180's that fit our car? The last 160 I got was too big
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: SuperSix on October 10 2012, 05:58:51 PM
http://www.nos4gn.com/servlet/the-136/Buick-Grand-National-parts/Detail (http://www.nos4gn.com/servlet/the-136/Buick-Grand-National-parts/Detail)
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: earlbrown on October 10 2012, 07:35:49 PM
Cool, one less thing I have to do. I do want to be sure that local parts store DO sell 180's that fit our car? The last 160 I got was too big

Do you have a set of tin snips you could introduce that big 160 to?
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: Steve Wood on October 10 2012, 07:40:07 PM
Cool, one less thing I have to do. I do want to be sure that local parts store DO sell 180's that fit our car? The last 160 I got was too big

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/1987-Buick-Regal/Thermostat/_/N-iidqmZ8gctr?filterByKeyWor d=thermostat&fromString=search (http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/1987-Buick-Regal/Thermostat/_/N-iidqmZ8gctr?filterByKeyWord=thermostat&fromString=search)

They may
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: Just a Six? on October 10 2012, 07:45:34 PM
One day I would like to see a test of the 160* & 180* stats installed with/without the steam holes drilled. I would guess that the car might run a couple * cooler but I have no proof thats what happens? Plus I'm sure each car has added mods that may affect the numbers? I dont see a downside with a summer only car so I'll keep drilling holes for now.
If I had the Motivation Phil does (I used too!!) I would do it but I seem to enjoy my couch more now than back in the 90's when I had lots of extra energy!  :chin:
 
Keep on wrenching Phil as it just may Motivate Me to get off my AZZ & do some work on the car before winter rolls in!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 10 2012, 08:00:25 PM
One day I would like to see a test of the 160* & 180* stats installed with/without the steam holes drilled. I would guess that the car might run a couple * cooler but I have no proof thats what happens? Plus I'm sure each car has added mods that may affect the numbers? I dont see a downside with a summer only car so I'll keep drilling holes for now.
If I had the Motivation Phil does (I used too!!) I would do it but I seem to enjoy my couch more now than back in the 90's when I had lots of extra energy!  :chin:
 
Keep on wrenching Phil as it just may Motivate Me to get off my AZZ & do some work on the car before winter rolls in!  :cheers:
Lol. Thanks gents
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: Steve Wood on October 10 2012, 08:10:05 PM
It just makes it easier to burp air out of the system, in theory....
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: earlbrown on October 10 2012, 11:02:28 PM
I've seen OEM's that mount vertical have a steam hole with some sort of floating pin in them. My slant6 is that way I think.

Normally I like to put 4 very small holes on mine when the mount horizontal just to keep it flowing. Been doing it (huh huh "doing it") for decades and none of my cars have exploded on me yet. :)
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 11 2012, 08:52:24 AM
re-adjusted the TV cable. car shifts extremely soft at the 4th notch, and a little earlier than i would like. Guess I'll pull it back one. :rolleyes;
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: Steve Wood on October 11 2012, 09:52:08 AM
that should do it...you cannot go four and a half...:D
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 11 2012, 10:20:07 AM
So leave it? Lol. Im all confused.  haahahahahaha
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 11 2012, 10:20:44 AM
And how does your car shift with the TV where its set at?  Firm?
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 11 2012, 10:47:14 AM
I like the way its shifting now!! :D
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: Steve Wood on October 11 2012, 12:12:48 PM
I agreed to pull it back one notch as you said...

My car shifts crisply with out being late on the shift points.  Be sure it is shifting cleanly and not slipping as you get down on the gas...a slip then burns up the clutches fast.
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 11 2012, 05:04:58 PM
I agreed to pull it back one notch as you said...

My car shifts crisply with out being late on the shift points.  Be sure it is shifting cleanly and not slipping as you get down on the gas...a slip then burns up the clutches fast.
Oh. It was definitely slippin before then. Right now it's "perfect." IDK how it was set before, but the car was always turning over the tires. Glad its not doing that now. Just going, shifting, and going again. It should be illegal to own a car this fun to drive. :rock:
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: Steve Wood on October 11 2012, 05:42:10 PM
I'm happy that you finally are getting there....:)  Still waiting on your wot throttle comments...be sure to watch the O2s and the timing retard in case the chip needs to be programmed a bit...
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 12 2012, 08:43:33 AM
I'm happy that you finally are getting there.... :)  Still waiting on your wot throttle comments...be sure to watch the O2s and the timing retard in case the chip needs to be programmed a bit...
im waiting to go WOT as well, but i still have to fix this TPS stuff(unless that above 4.0V is specifically for disengaging the compressor). AND, I just dont want to break anything. Im such a B word at times. Lol. But i just got the car back
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 12 2012, 08:49:44 AM
AND, you should write out a scenario on my WOT. Floor it from 1st gear to the top of 3rd watching my numbers(and stop whenever my O2's fall below a certain value or I see any KR), or just get on the highway and take from there?
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: Steve Wood on October 12 2012, 09:57:16 AM
Just get out on the highway and floor it in third gear (put it in third so it cannot shift to OD) around 55 mph....keep your foot in it as long as you can (but not over 100 mph)....without getting a ticket or running over someone.  Let off if you see over two degs of timing retard...remem ber the lowest O2 reading is just before you let off
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: Steve Wood on October 12 2012, 10:05:57 AM
After you reset the tvs cable, does it still not go over 3.8v on the tps?

The only reasons to have it higher are so you can program the chip and to turn the ac compressor off at 4.1 volts if Eric leaves that in the chip.

Having said that, it should be easy to get into the 4v+ range.  Have some one mash the gas pedal to the floor while you are watching under the hood....while pedal is on the floor, look at the throttle lever on the throttlebody and see if it is against the stop or not...if it is not, grab it with your hand and see if you can pull it the rest of the way open...if you can, then you need to stick the tie wrap under the pedal under the ball on the end of the cable to take the slack out.

It it was open all the way, you need to readjust the tps...grab it and move it all the way forward so that both slots are up against the screws and then rotate the top back while keeping the bottom slot against the screw until you get the desired voltage.  That should give you max wot voltage.

Or, just go by what I wrote on my site.
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 12 2012, 10:47:29 AM
Those are my next steps. My behind actually havent checked it since I re-adjusted the TV cable. Being too damn excited i forgot. Didnt drive the car today(although I wanted to) so i'll do it when I get home. Thanks. Keep you guys posted.
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 12 2012, 10:48:59 AM
Just get out on the highway and floor it in third gear (put it in third so it cannot shift to OD) around 55 mph....keep your foot in it as long as you can (but not over 100 mph)....without getting a ticket or running over someone.  Let off if you see over two degs of timing retard...remem ber the lowest O2 reading is just before you let off
It wont kick down to 2nd at that speed will it?
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 12 2012, 10:50:57 AM
Im going to swap out that T-stat before I do this. So excited I am
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: Steve Wood on October 12 2012, 11:09:22 AM
it might...you can start from 65 if you wish...does not hurt if it kicks down for a moment tho
Title: Re: Proud Injector Swapper!!
Post by: phil_long on October 12 2012, 11:10:41 AM
cool
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