IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: Sixpack on August 12 2012, 10:52:07 AM
-
Has anybody used Bailey eng TR6 ignition system any input would help looking to buy one for my buick
-
I have not used one. Technically it is a tour de force of modern technology with some really nice features. Will it make you go any faster on a ten second Buick with a good stock ignition? I doubt it. Will it make you go faster on a really fast race car? It might, but I suspect it will have to be in the sevens or so before there is a chance, BUT, it has a lot of neat features that might help you avoid problems, or find them, on a car having problems, or about to have problems-particularly if you are technically savvy yourself.
Given the use of modern technology, and given that Bob Bailey is one of the sharpest tacks in the Buick world, I would l believe that this is a reliable, state of the art, system that would not have problems for a very long time.
It sure looks good, and that will probably sell a few systems to guys that will never use the system for more than cruising around.
Given the component cost for a coil over plug system, there is no way that this can be a cheap replacement system.
Here is a link Turbodave231's installation of a Bailey Engineering TR6 Ignition System (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgHzHhUyRWI#ws) that shows it pretty well, I think.
If you can afford it and are not expecting any real improvement in normal performance from it as compared to a convention system in good working order, then I think it is the cat's pajamas because of its modern technology and its looks :)
-
installed two of them so far
one had XFI 2.0 , the other on a tt chip stock ecu
both cars are making low 10s power (650-700hp)
both tr6 setups were ordered with the coilpack and the good magnecore wires
i wasnt happy with the look at the stock location so i had bob bailey make a long extension harness from the box to the coilpack
and called casper and got a 4ft extension for the module , this allowed me to install the box on the driver fender well and to install the coilpack on the stock ignition bracket
besides the look being better having the box on the fender made it easier to access the dip switches to set the two step and operate other features
without relocating it the coil sits on the ign box behind the plenum and you need to undo the plug wires and remove six philips screws and remove the box lid (which the coil is mounted to) to get to the dip switches which for me are hard enough to see on the fender .. forget about seeing the little numbers inside the box back there .
it works great , spark is hot ,
theres a video of it being tested with my caspers ign tester on tb.com as well as some pics of it relocated
it also allows you to dial in the cam sensor using an analog tach and the two step seems to work very well
its a little pricey for most at around 700 for the box/coilpack and good wires , the extensions were a little over 100
http://www.tr6.bailey-eng.com/ (http://www.tr6.bailey-eng.com/)
-
What's an msd box for dis going for these days what would you buy? I know msd don't have some features his box has but just trying to get some opinions on both
-
I am not aware of anyone using an MSD box these days.
What are you trying to achieve beyond the stock ignition?
-
I think he should make it so you can see the diagnostic LEDs without having to take the cover off..
That being said, i will never own one, I don't need that level of performance/tweaking..
-
Just trying to get better performance as much as I can I take my car to the track nd every bit of perf helps also want a fast street car dont want get punked by any new iron I will probably order one see what happens
-
I would look for something that adds performance... the stock ignition has been into the sevens, and it is certainly more than adequate on street cars when working properly.
Take a breath, figure out how quick you want to be and then work on a combination of parts that will give you that performance. Ignitions typically add power in the ads, not on the dyno when compared to a properly functioning factory unit no matter what brand car we are discussing.
-
Ok thanks for the input I will think about what Iam doing
-
What Steve said and also ignition upgrades are needed when you up the rpm's and compression. I'm talking 6800 rpms plus and over 30lbs of boost on our cars. If your not there yet you won't see any difference. Assuming your stock setup has no issues.
-
Ok thanks for the input I will think about what Iam doing
Tell us what you have, and tell us what you want to achieve. We might be able to save you a bunch of money, or at least, spend it on what you actually need :) These cars respond to combination altho I guess that is true of all cars when you get right down to it.
-
20 k mile car redone trans art carr 3k stall conv stock exh man hooker down pipe no converter 42lbs injectors adj fuel psi reg nd boost compcams 890 valve springs 55 mm turbo also have a ram air system tt 5.7 chip an old school af meter stock bottom end nd heads waiting on a power logger but seems to run pretty good with 110 octane 22 lbs boost reason I wanted the tr6 gin is because of the two step I need to make boost at the line adj rear brakes new with aluminum drums will see trying to get to low 12 high 11 range will be racing the NMCA at Pomona next week
-
Two things ring a bell with your setup. If your ram-air is a kenne-bell or atr get rid of it. Or cut the filter housing in half and remove the lower half. They starve the engine for air. Two. get rid of that a/f meter. The trigger wire hooks up on the o2 sensor feed wire and alters the voltage report the O2 send to the ecm. If yours is a stand alone unit with it's own o2 then it's ok.
-
Okay, sounds like a nice car to work with! :)
The first thing you need is your scantool. I prefer the combination of the Scanmaster and the Powerlogger so I can keep an eye on O2s and Timing Retard at all times. The PowerLogger is excellent in that it allows data logging for good analysis plus allows you to post the data so that others can help you see what it is going on. We often read comments that go something like, "Oh, I don't have any detonation because I don't hear it."...Under boost, cylinder pressures are two-three times that of a regular engine and detonation occurs so quickly that its sound is often covered up by the engine blowing. That is why the ability to monitor timing retard is so crucial.
Now, you should not need a two step to build boost with a small turbo IF the converter matches the turbo and there are NO leaks in the exhaust before the turbo. Leaks around the exhaust ports, cracks in the headers (such as the common crack behind the juncture of cyls 3/5, the crossover connections, or under the turbo, will kill the spool.
If the car has a stock diameter converter restalled to 3000 rpm, then those where pretty sorry converters as they were very inefficient due to the excessive bending of the blades required to get the stall. They slipped up in rpm but they did not transfer much torque. The common name they were sold under was Orange Stripe. To efficiently get more than about 2800 rpm stall, one needs to go to a smaller diameter converter that is more like ten inches in diameter.
Now, given that the car has an Art Carr tranny in it, it was once popular to go to an Art Carr nine inch converter that was a non lock up unit. Those commonly stalled around 3000-3200 rpm.
The power band, stock, was from the lower 2000 rpm range to the mid 4000 rpm range. A bit larger turbo will raise that band but the the factory cam is pretty much dead around 5200 altho we may run it out the back door a bit higher with good valve springs.
The moral is that we want to match the turbo with the converter so that we don't give up any more of the rpm band than is necessary to launch the car because we have a relatively small rpm band to work with.
The TA 49 had a 58mm compressor that will easily spool with a 2800 rpm converter and many have used the stock converter which would usually show 2100 or so against the foot brake. This was capable of producing mid to upper 11's if the car was sound and had traction.
Not knowing if you have one of the old school turbos, or one of the more modern versions, it is hard to know what would be expected, but, it sounds to me as if you have some problem that is not related to a need for a two step.
You can put your foot firmly on the brake and bring the rpm up to the point where the rear wheels begin to turn and tell us the rpm and boost at this point.
As far as ram air goes, it if is truly one of the old KB cannister ram air set ups, remove the cannister as it was restrictive as the boost came up. A 9" open element K&N conical filter will do much better even when laying on top of the charcoal canister under the hood.
My best advice to you is to keep the car off the track and away from much boost until you can monitor O2s and timing retard plus fuel pressure to be sure you are not on the verge of hurting something. You will need a good fuel pump and a hot wire to it to insure you don't run out of fuel.
These cars are a lot more fun when they don't blow up :D the good news is that upper 11's is not very difficult if the engine and drivetrain are solid and the various components are all working properly. Traction should be a point of emphasis. I don't like slicks but the modern drag radials work very well.
-
Thanks for all the info I did fix all exh leaks nd tq is the nine incher but still no boost I think maybe to much fuel from idle? I wish I didn't have to take to track
But the race car blew the spag waiting on new tq nd have points from first race will have all day
Thur to TNT as long as it's consistent nd no detonation don't care what it runs as long as consistent maybe there is someone I could communicate with in real time while Iam track help tune just thinking out loud thanks again
-
hard to help without some data :)
When you hook up a scantool, you may find the maf is bad, or the O2 is bad. A rich idle will kill the spool easily. In turn, it can wash down the cylinder walls and ruin the rings in short order if very rich
-
I have the TR6 installed on my car, the #1 reason? The last ignition module and coil pack I bought where junk, on Casper's coil tester at 50% juice, spark would stop. I just got tired of buying a ignition module and coil pack sets, only to have them go bad so often... Hoping that this is the last combination I buy....
Don't ask me why but I was able to lean the car out more on highway cruise, also pulled some fuel out of WOT setting of the Turbo Tweak Spead Density chip.
But listen to Steve and Ed, you won't gain anything with this product, but if and when your exsisting ignition parts go south, I would give this product serious consideration for your cash.
Chuck
-
It's strange, I have bought one module and two coil packs in 35 years of car ownership...th at is for two cars, 25 years in one and 10 in the other. Kinda like dog years, I guess. But, I have seen many a non-original aftermarket replacement fail, or not work properly so I never suggest anything other than factory replacements in spite of the cost.
I know that running a failing coil pack will overheat the module and shorten its life, as well.
Being realistic, they ain't making them any more and we are fast approaching the day when a real GM module won't be available so I would not disagree with going with one of these if you have the money and yours is bad. We are going to have to do something to keep 'em on the road. :)
Hopefully the life expectancy will be as good as the originals.
-
I will try to get some data for u all to check out my PL won't behere till Tuesday hook it up ties night nd get some info thanks again
-
Being realistic, they ain't making them any more and we are fast approaching the day when a real GM module won't be available so I would not disagree with going with one of these if you have the money and yours is bad. We are going to have to do something to keep 'em on the road. :)
For just this reason I am going to replace the LC2 in my Buick with anything else when it finally pops... not worth the replacement cost for such a dated anchor of an engine. Series II/III 3800? ;)
-
LSX?
-
ford econoboost?
-
Really leaning toward twin turbos on one of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_V8_engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_V8_engine)
Incest is best!
-
I have seen a few of those...one was in an F85 Starfire....wa s far more successful after it went oveseas
-
That's like trading in a Vega for a Pinto :icon_eyes: