IHADAV8.com - Turbo Buick Tech, and Nonsense
Tech Area => General Buick Tech => Topic started by: Steve Wood on December 15 2010, 07:39:58 PM
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Guess I am going to have to get it in gear and write the section for tuning on my site. Some are damned and determined that it is some mystery.
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Seriously, put together a book and upload it to Amazon.com. Nobody is more qualified to do so.
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I spent two weeks writing ten pages for one of my friends....I need an editor. I am not literate like you.
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Most of the so called tuning issues that I see turn out to be a car that is not running properly because something is not right rather than being a true tuning problem.
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Maybe something explaining these theories as being incorrect? Due to somehing else affecting the tune, aside form just a bad tune?
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I have been trying, but first, one has to be able to recognize something is wrong with the car.
I started a page on engine running but not correctly...an d got distracted.... also having a hard time trying to figure out some organization
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Get It done Steve I wanna blow my engine up!! To organize everything really you should just look at it like a Newbie would. Everybodies first question is what do I need to get.
How do I hook these parts up and then how do I use them? Anyway question I have about tuning is if my Milivolts are in the 850-880 range at warm idle. Getting KR
when I get on it after 15 lbs. I took some fuel out on my TT alky chip now the millivolts are in the 640-780 range. Question is am I just masking a problem on my car by doing this or will this work. I'm getting good fuel pressure pound for pound
the only ifs is my stock MAF sensor still reading the way it should.
Stefan
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At the most basic...tuning is running the most boost that you can with the least fuel at the highest timing...and it is pretty much that simple-particularly with modern chips that are pretty close to right on default.
I find that an idle 02 somewhere around 789-820 on a warmed up engine is pretty much in the ballpark. Now, those numbers don't relate to the same numbers under boost because the sensor reads differently under pressure and high temp
Also, I find that modified engines with bigger cams need to be toward the higher end of that idle range to idle better, particularly when the engine or weather is cold.
Now, when spraying alky, I find that the engine is more likely to show timing retard when the mvs get up to about 840, but it often goes away when some fuel, or alky, is taken out.
I think this is a rich detonation phenomeon but it often looks a bit like false detonation on the log.
Altho I have run some very low o2s spraying dual nozzles, I think it is safer to run somewhere around 760-780 at wide open throttle if you have no timing retard.
If the maf is reading 4-7 at idle and you are seeing it ramp up to 255 at wot, it should be good.
Alky is a bit of balancing act. You want enuf at wot, but not too much too soon when you stand on it.
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Maybe we can all give Zap a tune-up
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I am not inserting a scantool into his brain's rear orifice.
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Okay so this explains a little bit. I am running a 212 Comp hyd flat cam. Prior to the Alky system I had no issues what so ever. TPS is .40 to 4.73 with the car off. I'll take a look at the numbers for the MAF I know idle # are between 4-7 don't really look at them when driving. I only changed the fuel pump because I had no idea of what was in the gas tank. My Millivolts where still in the 870-880 range in 3rd gear but I always have let off the gas when I see any KR. After I took the WOT fuel out dropped it down to 126 since it's running good in first gear I did not add to 1st on the chip. Power logger is on my wish list but daddy is probably getting a set of 15x8 from santa this year.
Stefan
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yeah, High o2s like that usually cause problems....go tta get some fuel out.
That cam will probably liike a bit richer idle to get it as steady as possible.
I would guess the maf is okay because one that is not will usually cause a lean conditon if reading low.
PL makes it easy to see the data trends as well as look as several parameters at one time for clues.
It is a lot easier for us old guys that have been looking at the SM for over twenty years to figure out :)
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With regards to tuning, it has been my experience, from years of reading tech posts, that many out there do not understand simple automotive basics. A good understanding of electrical troubleshootin g, for example, seems to escape most. Though not difficult, many seem unwilling to learn the basics before they "try" jumping to the advanced
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yes, the basics apply to all cars...and I never understand why some don't understand the basics of electrical troubleshootin g, but, then they grew up in a different world from me....at least my son learned to solder....need ed talent building rc trucks and such
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What Zap said. Way back when we had points and distributors, an engine overhaul was useless if they weren't setup properly. It really isn't much different now except the computer does all that stuff. That's why a chip is so important. A crank sensor is nothing more than a glorified set of points, (a cam sensor is just an anal retentive crank sensor) a coil pack is basically a distributor cap. After that, the engine needs to make a certain amount of vacuum, compression has to be right, cylinder leakage in range, and keep all it's bodily fluids and gasses intact. Turbo's just make it more fun. Just my take on the subject.
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cannot disagree with that at all. It all works logically, but with the mass of wiring on cars these days, one often has to apply the logic
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cannot disagree with that at all.
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to extend the problem, too many don't recognize the problem.
It is the old Pogo...we have met the enemy and it is us...or something like that
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yes, the basics apply to all cars...and I never understand why some don't understand the basics of electrical troubleshootin g, but, then they grew up in a different world from me....at least my son learned to solder....need ed talent building rc trucks and such
I notice the same issues seem to afflict other types of vehicles as well. On my cobaltss forum people will complain their car makes no power, people try to figure out what is wrong, and then they'll eventually mention there is some serious issues with it like its got a dead miss on one cylinder. Actually I get the impression from reading most tech pages on the buick sites, 1/4 of all GN's must run like a bag of shit.
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cannot disagree with that at all.
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cannot disagree with that at all.
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no, they don't
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John does.
AJ___
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That is what Zap said
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Yeah - I would give my $$$ to John before anyone. Amazing contributions he has made to the community. All I have of his is a TPS Tech. Beau4U gave it to me before he disappeared. :(
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One of the best, and brightest, vendors out there, hands down.
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Although I may need to finally replace the knock sensor that drinkin fool Dan Smith made for me YEARS ago. :D
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That is what Zap said
Zap who? You need to watch for those zaps when working with electric Steve.
AJ___
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Well, I am sure he's rocking a 200 amp alternator.
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LOL
don't get me started on wasting money on alternators...
Speaking of Zaps, A.J., bout ten years ago, I laid my wrist across the alternator reaching for something...I heard the Zap, and looking down to see my stainless steel watch band glowing....lef t a scar like the one Kane had in his lama test.
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LOL
don't get me started on wasting money on alternators...
Speaking of Zaps, A.J., bout ten years ago, I laid my wrist across the alternator reaching for something...I heard the Zap, and looking down to see my stainless steel watch band glowing....lef t a scar like the one Kane had in his lama test.
Ok now that had me laughing even though I know it was not funny. I seen that happen too.
I was out for a afternoon cruise in a up-scale neighbour-hood on my bike when I thought a bomb went off beside me. I look down and my blue jeans are soaked and my legs are numb. I though great . . . . Then after a few moments I see smoke then my legs started to burn ! Well it was a quick stop to the closest driveway. And yeah I know stop drop and roll. But I was Running in front of houses to find one that did not have their gate locked to the back yard at the same time strippin my pants et-al off ! ! Lets just say they thought I was streaking when I was seen running in front of those houses. Then looking for their water tap and hose ! ! !
I had quite the audience . . . POLICE even showed up, by then someone had brought me some pants. lol
Lets just say that a hydrogen boom is pretty loud and the acid burning is not fun.
Was not funny at the time but now I look back at it and giggle a little.
AJ___
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that used to happen pretty often....you were lucky that it was not a lot worse...but, I would like to have it on tape!
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Most of the so called tuning issues that I see turn out to be a car that is not running properly because something is not right rather than being a true tuning problem.
guys don't want to do that !! they want to throw parts on it an run 10s with NO problems. They prob still think the easter bunny is real to :cool;
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guys don't want to do that !! they want to throw parts on it an run 10s
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Ok now that had me laughing even though I know it was not funny. I seen that happen too.
I was out for a afternoon cruise in a up-scale neighbour-hood on my bike when I thought a bomb went off beside me. I look down and my blue jeans are soaked and my legs are numb. I though great . . . . Then after a few moments I see smoke then my legs started to burn ! Well it was a quick stop to the closest driveway. And yeah I know stop drop and roll. But I was Running in front of houses to find one that did not have their gate locked to the back yard at the same time
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You are correct, Charlie. One problem is that many don't want to read anything with more than three sentences, and, I cannot even say, Hello, is three sentences..
The other problem is organization.. .perhaps not my strong suit, but, there are so many interactive subjects that it is hard to go 1,2,3.....10 without needing to loop back and mentioning 4 again.
And, of course, there are so many ways to approach the subject and they all seem to work for the guy that understands how things work...at least they work if the cam has 12 good lobes on it and the compression is good in all six cylinders...:D
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Most of the so called tuning issues that I see turn out to be a car that is not running properly because something is not right rather than being a true tuning problem.
This has be the problem since cars had crank handles. I remember a friend many years ago bitched he couldn't get out of the 14's with a 11 sec build. I drove the car and it had no clutch left. Changed the cover and plate and it ran 11's. Same applies to our cars. 2-3 flare can add 2 seconds to et. Sloppy suspension, fuel supply, engine mechanical and other problems can add seconds also.